C4 - how do people avoid the lemons

andy1234

New user
I’m 53 year old serial car botherer and high on the bucket list of wants s a c4 corvette. It has to be a c4 due to my age - the coolest American car from my teens - plus my 10 year old son likes them and I have a fantasy of father son bonding adventures.

While I’ve built kit cars and restored Alfa’s I’ve had a real eye opener with the MX5 which has been a battle against astonishingly bad rust and general wear. They hide their problems really well and whilst now I know every bolt, every bushing and every panel of the mk1 NA personally and it’s all new shiny now I don’t want to ever go through that again - I knew it was rough when I bought it but blimey.

So I’m minded to find a late 80s manual c4 with the targa top and whilst cars of that age always need something I’d prefer not to spend an year under one.

How do people avoid the lemons? Are there good books that tell would be owners all the dark secrets or do folks get inspections and if so who does them. Do people like me regularly source from the southern US states or are there enough good ones to go round in the U.K. already. I’ve got a budget of 15 -20k - is that enough to get something okay?

Many thanks for reading so far and if you kind people can offer any advice I’m all ears.
Andy
 

Nassau65

CCCUK Member
I’m 53 year old serial car botherer and high on the bucket list of wants s a c4 corvette. It has to be a c4 due to my age - the coolest American car from my teens - plus my 10 year old son likes them and I have a fantasy of father son bonding adventures.

While I’ve built kit cars and restored Alfa’s I’ve had a real eye opener with the MX5 which has been a battle against astonishingly bad rust and general wear. They hide their problems really well and whilst now I know every bolt, every bushing and every panel of the mk1 NA personally and it’s all new shiny now I don’t want to ever go through that again - I knew it was rough when I bought it but blimey.

So I’m minded to find a late 80s manual c4 with the targa top and whilst cars of that age always need something I’d prefer not to spend an year under one.

How do people avoid the lemons? Are there good books that tell would be owners all the dark secrets or do folks get inspections and if so who does them. Do people like me regularly source from the southern US states or are there enough good ones to go round in the U.K. already. I’ve got a budget of 15 -20k - is that enough to get something okay?

Many thanks for reading so far and if you kind people can offer any advice I’m all ears.
Andy
15-20k will certainly buy you a very decent C4. They are very undervalued at the moment, and prices can and will go only one way, UP.
Even though it sounds not long ago to people of a certain age ( including me) the late 80,s ie 1988 is 34 years ago, that’s a bloody long time in the life of a car. Cars are out there, and especially with the internet all their pitfalls are available to read about.
sourcing from the US is fine, but prices are firm as people are appreciating what these cars were/are. Bloody good cars.
keep searching your bound to find one, inspections are easily arranged both here in the UK or the USA if you find one stateside. It’s usually money well spent.
 

Steven Smith

CCCUK Member
If you are a member there is a very good buying guide from the club.
As a new C4 owner myself having recently purchased a project car that had been off the road for 4+ years it didn't take much to get through a MOT.
There is very little to rust on a C4, just the fuel and brake pipes which run down each side under the sills and possibly the fuel tank, I found no rust on my car.
The weather seals perish and 16" tyres are hard to get and expensive, the digital dash can be problematic but fairly easy to sort out.
These cars are very easy to work on in my opinion.
This is my car and it has cost me a fraction of your budget.
 

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Chevrolet

CCCUK Member
I’ve got a budget of 15 -20k - is that enough to get
£20k is enough to get an early 2005/6 C6!! C4 prices are all over the place in the adverts, mostly from dealers you have never heard of before and dont sell normally sell Vettes and are "trying it on."
 

Chuffer

CCCUK regional rep
I’m 53 year old serial car botherer and high on the bucket list of wants s a c4 corvette. It has to be a c4 due to my age - the coolest American car from my teens - plus my 10 year old son likes them and I have a fantasy of father son bonding adventures.

While I’ve built kit cars and restored Alfa’s I’ve had a real eye opener with the MX5 which has been a battle against astonishingly bad rust and general wear. They hide their problems really well and whilst now I know every bolt, every bushing and every panel of the mk1 NA personally and it’s all new shiny now I don’t want to ever go through that again - I knew it was rough when I bought it but blimey.

So I’m minded to find a late 80s manual c4 with the targa top and whilst cars of that age always need something I’d prefer not to spend an year under one.

How do people avoid the lemons? Are there good books that tell would be owners all the dark secrets or do folks get inspections and if so who does them. Do people like me regularly source from the southern US states or are there enough good ones to go round in the U.K. already. I’ve got a budget of 15 -20k - is that enough to get something okay?

Many thanks for reading so far and if you kind people can offer any advice I’m all ears.
Andy
If deadly serious , join the club , get the Corvette Buyers Guide and also have access to lots of `members only ` topics on the Forum . As a member you will then also receive updates on CCCUK events in your area where you can meet members with their cars and get first experience knowledge . You will also the amazing club magazine too . It`s the way to go . (y)
 

andy1234

New user
I’ve joined the club - is better go and find this buyers guide and get reading and see what events are in the NE!
 

Chuffer

CCCUK regional rep
I’ve joined the club - is better go and find this buyers guide and get reading and see what events are in the NE!
Welll done and welcome to the world of CCCUK . I am sure your NE Region Area Reps will be in touch once they receive your contact details via the club Membership Secretary . Good luck with the C4 search .
 

Nassau65

CCCUK Member
With the kind of money you have for a C4 you should get a very perfect car. The later the car the better it will be in terms of engine/transmission etc. the earlier manual cars had the DN 4+3 later cars traditional 6 speed. The LT1 from 91 was a great improvement on the L98. Are you after a coupe or convertible. The original digital dash was updated for 1991. I must admit I like the original best.
if thinking about importing keep it 30 years or older for no tax and 5% VAT.
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
My advice ti you Andy is to try and buy one from a long term CCCUK member. Forget these chancers selling garbage perhaps only owned for a few weeks on Ebay and even Facebook pages. Much the same for dealer really - you'll be paying an additional figure to cover their profits. Aas have been intimated they seem to have minimal corrosion issues and the mechanics are vert sturdy.......thier only 'weekness' perhaps is interior trim plus plastic interior pieces and rubber windscreen trims.
 

andy1234

New user
With the kind of money you have for a C4 you should get a very perfect car. The later the car the better it will be in terms of engine/transmission etc. the earlier manual cars had the DN 4+3 later cars traditional 6 speed. The LT1 from 91 was a great improvement on the L98. Are you after a coupe or convertible. The original digital dash was updated for 1991. I must admit I like the original best.
if thinking about importing keep it 30 years or older for no tax and 5% VAT.
I read somewhere that the 4+3 is a tough box. Whether that’s true or not I’ve no idea, it’s one thing I read. I’m not fussed about absolute maximum performance of the sort I gather a ZR1 can dish out. An 88 corvette appeals too as i don’t want an airbag and I gather 88 was pre airbag. I’ve got a late mx5 NA IS with an airbag and the steering wheel is huge for the car - it’s like a ship’s wheel. I can’t lose it though as a car fitted with an airbag ( or certainly one that came into the U.K. new) has to keep it or it’s an mot fail and there is no viable smaller alternative for an mx5 NA. I’ve also a (perhaps irrational) fear of 25 year old airbags too. I’m convinced mine is going to go off as I get in. I quite like abs on a road car though. I like the digital dash an awful lot. Believe me when you are replacing every single body fitting in an mx5 at anywhere between £2 and £15 a go the cost and work of getting a digital dash fixed isn’t daunting.

I’ve got some happy moments coming looking at the video links TeamZR1 has kindly posted.
 
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teamzr1

Supporting vendor
The 4+3 Doug Nash was a dog
I had a 1984 in that year and 5-7th gears were really overdrive for GM to meet fuel mileage
I really like the 84 as big difference as to the smog engine of my 77 as the 84 was really a Corvette that could
pull 1 G in corners and liked the clamshell hood made it easier to work in engine bay

I never flipped the switch and used it as a 4 speed and was glad, not sure my 87 or 89 when the ZF MN6 was introduced
 

theseoldcars

CCCUK Member
I read somewhere that the 4+3 is a tough box. Whether that’s true or not I’ve no idea, it’s one thing I read. I’m not fussed about absolute maximum performance of the sort I gather a ZR1 can dish out. An 88 corvette appeals too as i don’t want an airbag and I gather 88 was pre airbag.

That's right, the Doug Nash 4+3 is pretty stout – it lived behind twin-turbocharged Callaway engines without much fuss, after all – but what happens, in my limited experience, is that people often neglect to service both the gearbox and the overdrive. They're separate units and, if I recall correctly, the overdrive unit has its own filter as well. It tends to be the overdrive, seemingly, that fails in such situations.

I had one in my '86 and it wasn't bad; the transmission's gear shift was a little ponderous, with a really long throw, and the overdrive felt a bit out of place, but it never gave me any problems. I tended to clutch in and out when manually commanding overdrive engagement/disengagement as well, because it could otherwise shunt a bit. Probably helped it last longer, too.

There's a good guide to the operational differences between the years here: Doug Nash Overdrive Comparisons

The ZF S6-40 six-speed, introduced in '89, suits the inherently sporting and then-advanced nature of the car better, in my opinion. A bit noisier, especially in early form, but extremely strong and offering a sweeter shift. Downsides? Potential noise-related issues aside, the clutch hydraulics can occasionally be an issue, in part due to poor-quality new parts and lack of servicing, the dual-mass flywheel can be problematic, although single-mass alternatives are available, and the gearbox itself is costly to rebuild.

Major failures should be few and far between, though, especially if the transmission is serviced with quality fluid. Lots of people out there putting serious torque through them, and launching their cars regularly, without issues. No guarantee, mind, but indicative of its potential.

The real snag, if you want a C4 with the pre-facelift interior with the full-on '80s digital dash, and a ZF gearbox, is that such a combination was only available in '89 – and only some ~4,100 were built, of which there aren't many here.

They're worth holding out for, if you're not in a rush to buy one, but I wouldn't overlook 4+3 cars, especially if the example in question is a good one. There are off-the-shelf kits to put better five- and six-speed Tremec alternatives in, although they are admittedly expensive, if you ever wanted to go that route.

It was in '90 that the more modern and conventional-looking interior arrived, along with the airbag-equipped steering wheel. The ZF gearbox option remained, too. The later cars are better in many respects, but I always liked the early interior and pre-update exterior myself. :)
 
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teamzr1

Supporting vendor
FYI as to the early ZF MN6

I had one of the very first as I worked at GM at the time so had early 1989
Car was barely broke in and while racing at the Texas Motorplex track in 90 deg weather I broke
second gear in half and boy GM was not too happy

The first couple years of the MN6 the waxers complained of a rattle under the shifter while it idle or very low speeds

So the numb nuts at GM made changes to fix that, but in doing so F'd over those of us we C4 ZR-1s :(

What it was is the early MN6 were designed to handle 450 ft/lbs of torque due to the ZR-1
In doing so the lashing between teeth of gears were real close together and that made the gears rattle a bit
The fricking fix GM had ZF widened the lashing up so no noise but that reduced the 450 to 400 ft/lbs torque :(
 

Spicer89

Well-known user
Yes you will definitely get one of this age and spec for this money. A good one at that 👌🏼.

If you import one yourself from USA you could achieve this for around 14/15 k if you buy one already here nearer the late teens figure. Both with reasonable 50k miles (ish) obviously the higher milage examples go for much less.

Smokey mountain traders in Texas has an 1989 for sale at the minute, immaculate example not even 200 miles on the clock for 35 k English this is a fine show expamle and displays what direction good examples will be rising too in the future for this late 80s era.
So yes Half of this amount will definitely get you a great driver. ✌🏼

(I’m a 1989 C4 corvette owner my self currently got mine valued at 20k for insurance)

Have a good day ☕️ Enjoy the hunt 🇺🇸
 

Roscobbc

Moderator
I've always wondered how 'serious' drivers of Vettes with the 4+3 transmission actually selected gear ratios for best performance......being as a specific OD ratio will be the same as the next conventional 'straight' ratio.
 

Nassau65

CCCUK Member
Yes you will definitely get one of this age and spec for this money. A good one at that 👌🏼.

If you import one yourself from USA you could achieve this for around 14/15 k if you buy one already here nearer the late teens figure. Both with reasonable 50k miles (ish) obviously the higher milage examples go for much less.

Smokey mountain traders in Texas has an 1989 for sale at the minute, immaculate example not even 200 miles on the clock for 35 k English this is a fine show expamle and displays what direction good examples will be rising too in the future for this late 80s era.
So yes Half of this amount will definitely get you a great driver. ✌🏼

(I’m a 1989 C4 corvette owner my self currently got mine valued at 20k for insurance)

Have a good day ☕️ Enjoy the hunt 🇺🇸
Agreed. They are a lot of car for the money at the moment , and prices in the US are firm and rising
That Smokey mountain car is pretty useless to 99% of the buyers out there. You just can’t use it with that kind of mileage, and your paying BIG for that lack of mileage.
Once bought a 1993 Camaro Indy pace car ( festival car as well ) with about 300 miles on it. Just couldn’t use it for fear of increasing its mileage. Shipped it back to the US eventually.
 

Spicer89

Well-known user
Yes totally agree with the usability of a such low milage car only a collectors desire

However giving a current contemporary example of what a near Perfect condition unused one goes for so members can gauge what a good strong 50k miles used one should be sold for in summer 2022 (right now).

sounds like a whopper the indy pace Camaro
 
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Nassau65

CCCUK Member
Yes totally agree with the usability of a such low milage car only a collectors desire.

Was just giving a current contemporary example of what a near Perfect condition unused one goes for so members can gauge what a good strong 50k miles used one should be sold for in summer 2022 (right now).

sounds like a whopper the indy pace Camaro
Yes, the 1993 pace car Camaro was/is a nice car. First year for the multi stripe/ribbon grafix. Car looked real good. Ribbons replicated onto the seats, door panels etc. we had two of them, one was about 45k miles which dad used the other so low it just sat about. That one went back to the USA , the other one we had for about 20 years, sold it to a guy who totalled it within a month. It’s now in Holland after being fully restored.
 

Nassau65

CCCUK Member
Here it is, we carefully looked after this for maybe 20 years and within a month of selling it, it was totalled. My dad was gutted
CF4CE293-A026-431C-9FAE-78D33DED810B.jpeg
 
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