C7 cylinder deactivation

RussTeens

CCCUK Member
Hi all

Sorry if this has already been covered, but curious on whether anyone has knowledge on whether this is a good idea or not.
We have a 2017 grand sport. Have seen many video's on line saying you should not use the cylinder deactivation as it can cause all sorts of issues, sometimes leading to needing an engine replacement, issues with lifters etc.
Anyone have any knowledge of this topic they would like to share.
Have used it and can get over 36 to the gallon on a motorway run which is great but not worth it, if the result is a new engine.....

Thanks in advance

Russell
 

Chevrolet

CCCUK Member
So its a US spec car Russell/You see it going into 4cyls when driving along? Auto or manual? Might need a "Range" device then? UK/Euro autos are only in 4 cylinder in Eco Mode when you start it up. Car is running on 8cyls all the time in other driving modes (Tour, Sport, Track) Yes it has been covered:
 
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Stingray

CCCUK Member
My US market C7 is now eight years old and I have no reason query the cylinder deactivation. I do have a Range device (which definitely works) although I rarely use it.
The number of Corvettes built in Euro spec is absolutely tiny compared with the number of North American cars so they are pretty much irrelevant in the statistics.
Keep up with sensible fluid changes and I don't see why it should be a problem.

Euro cars - deactivate in Eco only.
US cars - deactivate in ALL modes, including Track. But if an Auto car is driven in Manual the deactivation is locked out.
 

RussTeens

CCCUK Member
Hi both. Ours is a UK spec car and is manual. So it defaults to Eco mode when first started and this is the only mode that the deactivation happens in. In all other modes including Weather, it stays in 8 cylinders.
Just wanted to know if there was any evidence that running in eco mode does any harm long term.
It’s a bit annoying in 4th just ambling around so tend to put the car in Tour mode when on smaller roads to keep the activation turned off but on long runs the economy is attractive.
I’ve heard it said that the cutting in and out is hard on auto transmissions. That seems hard to believe but guess that‘s the trouble with social media you never know what to believe. Ours is a manual so not worried about that more the engine and if there is any substance to the fears around the shutting down of the 4 cylinders.
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
A federal judge has sent 17 plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit against GM to arbitration.
The plaintiffs were part of a class action lawsuit against GM that alleges a malfunction in the automaker’s V8 engine valve lifters.

Per a report from Car Complaints, the class action lawsuit identifies a broad variety of GM vehicles produced between the 2014 and 2021 model years that may exhibit malfunctioning V8 engine valve lifters. These vehicles include:

  • 2014 – 2021 Cadillac Escalade
  • 2016 – 2019 Cadillac CTS-V
  • 2014 – 2021 Chevy Silverado
  • 2014 – 2019 Chevy Corvette
  • 2014 – 2016 Chevy Avalanche
  • 2014 – 2021 Chevy Suburban
  • 2014 – 2021 Chevy Tahoe
  • 2016 – 2021 Chevy Camaro
  • 2014 – 2016 GMC Sierra
  • 2014 – 2021 GMC Yukon
Following the judge’s decision to send 17 of the plaintiffs to arbitration, the class action lawsuit now includes 42 plaintiffs.

The class action lawsuit alleges that the vehicles listed above may exhibit an issue with the engine valve lifters, which are part of the engine’s active fuel management system (DOD, AFM, DFM).

Plaintiffs state that the rocker arms shed needle bearings, which in turn cause the arms to fall out of sync with the rest of the valvetrain. The valve springs will allegedly break down and fail prematurely, and thus fail to hold the combustion chamber closed. Lifters may allegedly get stuck or collapse.

As a result, plaintiffs allege that the V8 engines will tick or squeak when not idling, and that the engine will eventually misfire, causing the engine to lose power, surge, or stall.

Per Car Complaints, GM filed a motion to compel 20 of the class action lawsuit plaintiffs to arbitration, as the vehicle owners allegedly signed valid arbitration clauses. However, Judge Laurie J. Michelson granted GM’s motion to compel arbitration for only 17 of those plaintiffs. According to the judge, the 17 plaintiffs signed arbitration agreements with GM dealerships, providing “clear and unmistakable” evidence that they agreed to arbitrate their claims with an arbitrator.

The GM valve lifter lawsuit was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, Harrison, et al., v. General Motors LLC.
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
GM has had at least 3 class action lawsuits going back to 1990s when at that time it was called DOD
They keep changing the name, ie, DOD, AFM and now DFM to try and confuse buyers as what they buy today is not the F up
with these designs of the past, but there is now a new lawsuit as to 2021 model years

Attached below is a PDF of one of the class action lawsuits

All my customers ask me when doing a custom tune to turn this crap off in the calibration and many were done years ago and to this day have had no problems with this function OFF

More :

A class action alleges the active and dynamic fuel management systems found in certain Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC models suffer from a defect that causes the valve lifters to malfunction and fail.

The case takes issue with the 16 active or dynamic fuel management lifters found at the top of the eight cylinders on each vehicle’s engine. These lifters, the suit says, are responsible for opening at certain times and allowing fuel to enter the engine, while at other times remaining closed to prevent some cylinders from consuming fuel when only partial engine power is needed, like when a vehicle is cruising at highway speeds.
The goal of General Motors’ active fuel management (AFM) and dynamic fuel management (DFM) valve train systems is to improve overall fuel efficiency without having to reduce engine size, the case states.

The sprawling 243-page lawsuit alleges, however, that the valve train systems—essentially the mechanical parts that control the opening and closing of an engine’s intake and exhaust valves—used by defendant General Motors for a number of popular Cadillac, Chevy and GMC vehicles are defective and can cause complete engine failure, as well as pose a serious safety risk. According to the complaint, GM has been well aware of the problem yet actively concealed it, claiming that drivers are somehow responsible.

“In this way, GM has effectively and knowingly transferred the costs of repair to consumers, despite the promises of its express warranties,” the lawsuit charges.

What’s the problem, exactly?

More specifically, the complaint claims the valve train systems fail because the lifters and their locking pins do not conform to design specifications, are made from “sub-standard” materials and are installed in an incorrect position in the lifter guide. Moreover, the valve lifters were not properly designed given the expansion and contraction rates of the lifters and engine block were not taken into account, the case alleges.

Further still, the lawsuit says the bores in which the lifters are inserted are not wide enough to allow the lifters to move freely, which can damage the components. General Motors is also alleged to have failed to account for the amount of increased pressure that the AFM lifters are exposed to by the pressurized oil they use to operate, causing the parts to fail prematurely, according to the suit.

In addition, the valve train systems generally need more maintenance than what’s advised in General Motors’ vehicle guides, including more frequent oil changes, engine flushing and cleaning, and/or replacement of the valve lifter oil manifold and its filter at regular intervals, the lawsuit claims.

According to the suit, all of these factors can cause the valve train components to fail, forcing costly repairs on consumers who may not have bought or leased their Cadillac, Chevy or GMC, or who would have paid way less for it, had they known of the headaches that lay ahead:

GM’s failure to disclose the Valve Train Defect at the time of purchase is material because no reasonable consumer expects to spend thousands of dollars to repair or replace damaged vehicle components that the manufacturer knows will fail well before the expected useful life of the component and knows will also damage other components or destroy the engine entirely.”

What happens when the alleged defect pops up? Is there a noise?

The lawsuit claims that when the valve train components begin to fail, including the lifters, rocker arms and valve springs (more on these below), the vehicle can lose power while it’s being driven. The car might also hesitate, and its engine could misfire, stall, shudder, stutter or surge, according to the complaint.

Per the suit, a common symptom of an issue with the valve train system is a ticking noise coming from the engine compartment, as well as other abnormal sounds, including chirps, squeals and squeaks.

The lawsuit stresses that the valve train system defect presents a significant safety risk (along with a costly repair bill) as failure of the engine could put drivers and passengers in a dangerous situation:

Losing power while driving, especially at highway speeds or while trying to merge or change lanes, hesitation, surging, stalling, as well as full engine failure, all significantly increase the risk of vehicle collision. Stalled vehicles or those with engine failure can also leave their occupants stranded in dangerous situations, including on the side of busy highways or roads.”

If and when a valve train system issue manifests during the vehicle’s warranty period, GM dealerships will replace the parts that have failed with equally defective components, the lawsuit alleges. The suit also claims that the repairs done by GM dealers are “often incomplete,” as the lifters are not totally replaced and other engine components possibly damaged by the defect are left in place.

As a result, the valve train system defect may well manifest again, this time outside the vehicle’s warranty period, leaving drivers to foot the bill for repair costs, the complaint alleges.

“Further, this ongoing damage to the engine eventually and inevitably leads to Class Vehicles requiring full engine replacements, well before the expected lifespan of the engine has elapsed,” the suit says.

Problems plague not just the lifters, case claims

As the suit tells it, it’s not only the lifters that suffer from defects in design, manufacture and/or workmanship. According to the complaint, other components, namely the valve springs and rocker arms, which, respectively, return the valves to their closed position and act as a lever to open and close the valves, are also faulty and have “high rates of premature failure.”

The suit contends, more specifically, that the valve springs and rocker arms at issue fail earlier than they should because they do not conform to design specifications and/or are made from “sub-standard materials.”

Further still, the case alleges the engine control module, the “brain” of the vehicle that controls the valve train system, is programmed incorrectly, which leads to mistimed valve train events that damage system components and add to the problem in general.
 

Attachments

  • harrison-et-al-v-gm.pdf
    1.7 MB · Views: 1

RussTeens

CCCUK Member
That’s interesting thank you. Guess that’s a why I’ve seen so many people say fit the plug in unit to deactivate it.
I’ve also seen videos recommending changing lifters to avoid the problem but suspect cost wise it’s probably better to keep all 8 cylinders firing as opposed to all the work involved preventing or fixing the issue.
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
That’s interesting thank you. Guess that’s a why I’ve seen so many people say fit the plug in unit to deactivate it.
I’ve also seen videos recommending changing lifters to avoid the problem but suspect cost wise it’s probably better to keep all 8 cylinders firing as opposed to all the work involved preventing or fixing the issue.

Since I do custom tuning, I have seen the damage this crap can do going back to late 1990s
I know people screwed by this trade off all their GM vehicles including Corvettes and swear off buying any GM vehicles

Some as you mention which is very costly is yanking out all the DOD/AFM/DFM parts out of the engine and normal valvetrain installed
But simple to turn this off so it never can be commanded on, leaving all the stock parts in

As to really saving fuel mileage as what this is all about
I have turned it off in the tune and owners say their MPG went up with the total changes of the tune

If not bad enough, newest DFM, can turn but all BUT 1 cylinder off
 

Stingray

CCCUK Member
I’ve heard it said that the cutting in and out is hard on auto transmissions.
There's a lot of hot air about this subject but little to fret about.

Your torque converter contains a lockup clutch. That clutch is used in all gears. i.e. the car declutches, shifts and then locks up again after a gear change. That same clutch is used to smooth the slight "lurch" when changing between 4-pot and 8-pot modes. i.e. the clutch releases a bit through the change and then locks up again.

This lockup clutch is clever, it's not just locked or unlocked, it can allow slippage to suit the circumstances.

So far so good.

The original transmission fluid used by GM in these auto boxes had the unfortunate habit of absorbing water. "Hygroscopic". Once there's water in the fluid the behaviour of the fluid changes a little. Unfortunately the clever lockup clutch in your torque converter can get confused and keep locking/unlocking, giving an effect that's said to feel like driving on a bumpy road. Muppets who don't realise there's something wrong can end up needing to replace a worn out lockup clutch (i.e. fit a new torque converter) at significant expense.

GMs solution was to specify a new and improved transmission fluid which doesn't absorb water. So far as I'm aware this fluid change is an effective fix. My 2015 car, an early 8-speed auto, has had a precautionary transmission fluid change done by Ian Allan. It cost around £500.
 

Stingray

CCCUK Member
We have a 2017 grand sport. Have seen many video's on line saying you should not use the cylinder deactivation as it can cause all sorts of issues, sometimes leading to needing an engine replacement, issues with lifters etc.
Russell
I've seen some talk of this but have no feel for the extent of any issue. GM must have sold 1,000,000 of those vehicles yet there's only a handful of people on the class action so it's difficult to judge how common it actually and is and what might be causing it.

The lifters are adjusted by oil pressure so make sure you're using the right specification of oil and keep up to date with oil changes to minimise risk.
 

Stingray

CCCUK Member
By the way, I've yet to find anyone in UK who I'd feel comfortable to let "turn it off in the tune". If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
So far as I can gather many owners on both sides of the Atlantic are similarly cautious, preferring to use the inexpensive Range device which just plugs into OBD port.
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
By the way, I've yet to find anyone in UK who I'd feel comfortable to let "turn it off in the tune". If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
So far as I can gather many owners on both sides of the Atlantic are similarly cautious, preferring to use the inexpensive Range device which just plugs into OBD port.

A ranger device means plugged in the diagnostics port all the time
Some versions of this had no function to turn off when the vehicle was turned off and continued to drain down the battery
When in use, it is always taking up PCM processing and on-board network time

Of course, if the car is in GM warranty and the owner fails to unplug it, GM sees that and voids the warranty
GM wrote a bulletin just on this device, warning dealers any repairs needed would not be covered in warranty

Turning off is a simple change as other GM models do not have DOD, etc, and thus has a code switch to turn all logic off for that function

One GM loss on a class action on this cost them over $100 million bucks when they lost the case, so it is not a few vehicles with wacked engines or valvetrains
 

RussTeens

CCCUK Member
There's a lot of hot air about this subject but little to fret about.

Your torque converter contains a lockup clutch. That clutch is used in all gears. i.e. the car declutches, shifts and then locks up again after a gear change. That same clutch is used to smooth the slight "lurch" when changing between 4-pot and 8-pot modes. i.e. the clutch releases a bit through the change and then locks up again.

This lockup clutch is clever, it's not just locked or unlocked, it can allow slippage to suit the circumstances.

So far so good.

The original transmission fluid used by GM in these auto boxes had the unfortunate habit of absorbing water. "Hygroscopic". Once there's water in the fluid the behaviour of the fluid changes a little. Unfortunately the clever lockup clutch in your torque converter can get confused and keep locking/unlocking, giving an effect that's said to feel like driving on a bumpy road. Muppets who don't realise there's something wrong can end up needing to replace a worn out lockup clutch (i.e. fit a new torque converter) at significant expense.

GMs solution was to specify a new and improved transmission fluid which doesn't absorb water. So far as I'm aware this fluid change is an effective fix. My 2015 car, an early 8-speed auto, has had a precautionary transmission fluid change done by Ian Allan. It cost around £500.
There's a lot of hot air about this subject but little to fret about.

Your torque converter contains a lockup clutch. That clutch is used in all gears. i.e. the car declutches, shifts and then locks up again after a gear change. That same clutch is used to smooth the slight "lurch" when changing between 4-pot and 8-pot modes. i.e. the clutch releases a bit through the change and then locks up again.

This lockup clutch is clever, it's not just locked or unlocked, it can allow slippage to suit the circumstances.

So far so good.

The original transmission fluid used by GM in these auto boxes had the unfortunate habit of absorbing water. "Hygroscopic". Once there's water in the fluid the behaviour of the fluid changes a little. Unfortunately the clever lockup clutch in your torque converter can get confused and keep locking/unlocking, giving an effect that's said to feel like driving on a bumpy road. Muppets who don't realise there's something wrong can end up needing to replace a worn out lockup clutch (i.e. fit a new torque converter) at significant expense.

GMs solution was to specify a new and improved transmission fluid which doesn't absorb water. So far as I'm aware this fluid change is an effective fix. My 2015 car, an early 8-speed auto, has had a precautionary transmission fluid change done by Ian Allan. It cost around £500.
Ah that’s a good explanation thanks. Seen people say it’s an issue with auto’s but not why. I guess that issue shouldn’t affect a manual but the lifters and other engine components of course it would. I believe Ian Allan supplied the car new to the first owner who I understand isn’t with us anymore sadly. Virginia Water is only an hour from us so will reach out to them. Thanks for the info really ineresting.
 

RussTeens

CCCUK Member
A ranger device means plugged in the diagnostics port all the time
Some versions of this had no function to turn off when the vehicle was turned off and continued to drain down the battery
When in use, it is always taking up PCM processing and on-board network time

Of course, if the car is in GM warranty and the owner fails to unplug it, GM sees that and voids the warranty
GM wrote a bulletin just on this device, warning dealers any repairs needed would not be covered in warranty

Turning off is a simple change as other GM models do not have DOD, etc, and thus has a code switch to turn all logic off for that function

One GM loss on a class action on this cost them over $100 million bucks when they lost the case, so it is not a few vehicles with wacked engines or valvetrains
Appreciate all the info. Does appear to be a bit of a dice roll but had heard that lots of other models with the same engine had this issue so I’m guessing your advice would be to turn off the feature either each time you drive the car or with the range device or programmed in?
 

Stingray

CCCUK Member
Sorry about the double entry of my previous message. Trying to quote an extract from anything on here is crazily clunky and then won't let you change anything.

The Range device has existed in various "editions" depending how the thing was programmed at the factory. There are also different editions/generations for different vehicles so you need to buy the right model as opposed to the first one you see on Ebay. Bear in mind it's a digital electronic device as opposed to a simple electrical plug-in.

Early devices were said to take a small current drain with the car turned off so if the car was left standing for a long time it might cause a flat battery. It's said that later devices do not cause this issue.

If you are at all concerned then just buy a "switched" OBD extension cable and plug the device into that. You can then flip the switch when leaving the car parked-up and eliminate any conceivable risk of battery drain. Example on the link below. Use a plain extension as well and you'll have a cable long enough to put the Range in your centre console with the switch easily accessible. Saves a lot of scrabbling under the dash and has the advantage that you can switch on the move.
 

Stingray

CCCUK Member
The various comments on this link are worth reading because, as you will see, there are differing points of view around the whole subject.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Silverado/comments/vkrt3m
Comments include,
Using the AFM every now and then, even if you usually have it turned off, may be no bad thing. Keeps everything moving.
Vehicles with the "bad parts batch" tended to fail early in life.
Other vehicles that have issues are often at high mileage and may not have had appropriate oil change interval.
The technology has evolved significantly since it was first introduced.
If your car has issues get it fixed; don't just carry on until things get worse.
 

Rich Steel

CCCUK Member
My US market C7 is now eight years old and I have no reason query the cylinder deactivation. I do have a Range device (which definitely works) although I rarely use it.
The number of Corvettes built in Euro spec is absolutely tiny compared with the number of North American cars so they are pretty much irrelevant in the statistics.
Keep up with sensible fluid changes and I don't see why it should be a problem.

Euro cars - deactivate in Eco only.
US cars - deactivate in ALL modes, including Track. But if an Auto car is driven in Manual the deactivation is locked out.
Seems to be the same in C8 cars - deactivation does not work when manual mode selected.
 

UKBeancounter

Committee Member
By the way, I've yet to find anyone in UK who I'd feel comfortable to let "turn it off in the tune". If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
So far as I can gather many owners on both sides of the Atlantic are similarly cautious, preferring to use the inexpensive Range device which just plugs into OBD port.
Keith at Eurovettes carried out a re-programme of my 2017 GS Auto at the nationals specifically to disable the cylinder deactivation. This was due to the constant swapping to 4 cylinders even at low speed, really annoying. I also have little confidence that driving a car on 4 cylinders in the long term is good for the engine. Lets not forget the only reason this technology was developed was to fudge the MPG and emissions figures to increase GM's overall MPG average across the whole range.
My car is a US import so the deactivation was aggressive. Since the alteration the car feels smoother during acceleration through all gears, pulls better from low speed as there is not the momentary heistancy whilst 8 Cyl's come back on line, and the fuel consumption has only decreased by approx 1 mpg, which I can live with.

The remap is reversible, Keith kept a copy of the original programme/tune.
 

Stingray

CCCUK Member
That's interesting. Keith has been a long term Corvette "good guy". Given he's been selling one or two US market C7s in UK it's interesting that he's not advertising AFM delete on the forum as a service. I guess if it's done as a paid service that can open up a whole Pandora's Box of potential liability issues, given some engines appear to have failed in this way after AFM delete. (That's also my guess of why Ian Allan don't do it.)
 
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