Looking for a manual C6 - Anyone selling?
- Thread starter Llewelyn
- Start date
CaptainK
CCCUK Member
From experience, its at this point on Facebook where you get lots of owners saying their cars are for sale - and all have the AUTO gearbox because they didn't read the post. And then you get some that did read the post, and say that's its AUTO as the "auto is better" or "has a manual mode" etc etc. Which is all well and nice, and their cars are very nice they are offering for sale, BUT its not what you are looking for. Dunno why they bother, as it just wastes everyone's time.
Good luck with the search
Llewelyn
CCCUK Member
Thanks - Already chatting to Alan!
Llewelyn
CCCUK Member
100%. I haven't got a problem with autos, I just don't want one! Alans car is ticking the boxes for me, I need to go and vie it but I am away on hol as of Friday so will have to wait!From experience, its at this point on Facebook where you get lots of owners saying their cars are for sale - and all have the AUTO gearbox because they didn't read the post. And then you get some that did read the post, and say that's its AUTO as the "auto is better" or "has a manual mode" etc etc. Which is all well and nice, and their cars are very nice they are offering for sale, BUT its not what you are looking for. Dunno why they bother, as it just wastes everyone's time.
Good luck with the search
Nassau65
CCCUK Member
Me, I haven’t got a problem with manuals, just never wanted one. Had to compromise once when I wanted a 1960, but didn’t enjoy driving it. Tried a few manual mid years, but again didn’t like it. Clutches were vey heavy, and had leg aches after the test drives.
Didn’t mind selling them, but they wasn’t for me as a personal car.
Haven’t driven a manual C5 and up , so no first hand experience. I do assume they have improved greatly over the old manual yanks of the past.
Always go with want you want I say. Happy hunting.
Roscobbc
Moderator
Auto's are really great......late model 8 speed auto's are superb and generally perform and have better economy for most drivers than even 5 and 6/7 speed manuals. Most of the modern 6 speed manual 'boxes have ratios designed for emissions and economy and are really more like 4 speed transmissions with 2 overdrive ratios. For the driver looking for higher performance and an instantaneous response from their transmission it just has to be a manual. Even the very best auto box with manual override cannot (on the street anyway) compete with a good 4 speed close ratio manual transmission like a old school M21. The saving grace for big block Vette owners is that you don't need to use all the ratios all the time and 'short shifting' from 1st to 3rd, even 4th is an easy option.
Llewelyn
CCCUK Member
Agreed - I had an 8 speed ZF auto in a 2022 Supra I owned (yes, technically it was a Z4!) and it was an absolutely mega gearbox. I've also had an auto C5 which was super fun. However, I simply love rowing the gears! Auto guys will say "acceleration is faster", "changes are instantaneous" etc which is true but I'm into feeling connected as opposed to outright performance and nothing beats the human machine interface which is a clutch pedal and grumpy shifter...
Nassau65
CCCUK Member
That’s what all the UK purists say or used to say about American “ slush” ( auto) gearboxes. No feel, not a real driving machine unless it’s a manual box.Agreed - I had an 8 speed ZF auto in a 2022 Supra I owned (yes, technically it was a Z4!) and it was an absolutely mega gearbox. I've also had an auto C5 which was super fun. However, I simply love rowing the gears! Auto guys will say "acceleration is faster", "changes are instantaneous" etc which is true but I'm into feeling connected as opposed to outright performance and nothing beats the human machine interface which is a clutch pedal and grumpy shifter...
Me, I’ve always been content to let the box do the work. Still am.
I’ve got the auto with the paddle shifts on my Camaro SS stateside, never even tried them, and if I’m honest, don’t know how to.
I just put it into D , and away I go. That suites me fine. What a boring old bastard I am.
Roscobbc
Moderator
With 'only' a 6200 rev limit and 3.08 rear-end 70 - 75 mph is perfectly feasible with an M21 transmission. Run the M21's through a drag 1/4 mile calculator and it will generally show the quickest times (of course reaction times are key). Most stock big block powered manual cars will be perfectly happy to 'plonk' around town in 4th gear at 15 mph. My old L36 manual would pull off at idle speed in any gear.
CaptainK
CCCUK Member
I do that in my 327 too - 1st to 3rd is common, as is 2nd to 4th, and sometimes 1st to 4th when I want to hear the sound a bit whilst pulling away in a 30mph area
teamzr1
Supporting vendor
With the flood of electronics used for today's auto tranny there is far more control by the nameplates
how they function and dictate too much control out of the hands of the drivers
They go so far and control/detune how much torque is allowed by the trannies controller
I think gone way too far and removes the fun factor driving like a Corvette
That includes using the electronics that even if at a drag strip, the driver simply via controller's functions
selects a level of how the car functions such as if wanting more gas mileage, street, performance or track modes
and the controllers take over completely
Example, driver selects launch mode, and the PCM and TCM take over, auto selects the launch RPMs, brake pressure, amount of torque
and simply the driver sits, and the controllers are doing the launch controlling RPMs, throttle angle torque output, and tranny gears used
along with a controller of ass end dictating the amount of torque to either or both rear wheels
Driver might as well be sleeping and has to be totally boring to go drag racing but having nothing to do but steer the car.
If interested in what the auto tranny controller does as to stock GM software calibrations I took a GM 8 speed tranny calibration
and below I converted it to a text file for you to be able to see and read all a auto tranny is controlled
The positive is, as I do is change those values as tuning and flashing that into the TCM and wakes the tranny up
including allowing higher torque output, making the shifts firmer and quicker and at what RPMs or MPH up or downshifts are done
and reducing when the GM abuse modes kick in
how they function and dictate too much control out of the hands of the drivers
They go so far and control/detune how much torque is allowed by the trannies controller
I think gone way too far and removes the fun factor driving like a Corvette
That includes using the electronics that even if at a drag strip, the driver simply via controller's functions
selects a level of how the car functions such as if wanting more gas mileage, street, performance or track modes
and the controllers take over completely
Example, driver selects launch mode, and the PCM and TCM take over, auto selects the launch RPMs, brake pressure, amount of torque
and simply the driver sits, and the controllers are doing the launch controlling RPMs, throttle angle torque output, and tranny gears used
along with a controller of ass end dictating the amount of torque to either or both rear wheels
Driver might as well be sleeping and has to be totally boring to go drag racing but having nothing to do but steer the car.
If interested in what the auto tranny controller does as to stock GM software calibrations I took a GM 8 speed tranny calibration
and below I converted it to a text file for you to be able to see and read all a auto tranny is controlled
The positive is, as I do is change those values as tuning and flashing that into the TCM and wakes the tranny up
including allowing higher torque output, making the shifts firmer and quicker and at what RPMs or MPH up or downshifts are done
and reducing when the GM abuse modes kick in
Dorsetsteve
Well-known user
Similar boat. I’ve been keeping my eye on the market for a manual c6 as I equally have no real interest in an automatic. The following is just my experience/opinion in my own potential buyer experience.
The market for Corvettes certainly appears quite slow. Some cars sell quickly but others hang around for months and the volume is low. I’ve had to expand my preferences especially if I want to stay in budget to include autos but I wouldn’t consider an earlier 4 speed, that’s the opposite to the car I want.
You’re probably being approached because of the slow market. It’s a buyers market, although the price seems quite ambitious, probably driven by a perception of scarcity. There’s a white one I posted on here asking about why it’s been for sale for so long and the result was it’s a potential basket case and in reflection of this the car is vastly overpriced. I think there’s also a hang over from Covid when these kind of cars did have a bull run.
It’s very much the same with the car I’m looking to sell. There’s a fair bit of overpriced stuff, some lovely stuff commanding reasonable money but slow to sell and the mid range is probably overpriced and not selling. Mines mid range condition and I don’t want to give it away, just like any owner.
I’m now currently considering a few options;
Not sell my current toy as I won’t get close to the amount I’d like and sulk like a spoilt brat. I tried to MOT is about 6/8 weeks back and it failed on some nonsense and I’ve not had a free day to go back, so it’s just sat in the garage sulking.
Sell my toy for what it will sell for and purchase a different car to the C6, (perhaps a C5 manual but similar problems). This feels like giving up.
Import a C6 from the states, different set of headaches and not a huge financial gain.
The forth option is to bridge the cash gap between new toy and old but that’s a harder sell with the long haired general.
The reckless option, import two and hope the first covers the second!
The market for Corvettes certainly appears quite slow. Some cars sell quickly but others hang around for months and the volume is low. I’ve had to expand my preferences especially if I want to stay in budget to include autos but I wouldn’t consider an earlier 4 speed, that’s the opposite to the car I want.
You’re probably being approached because of the slow market. It’s a buyers market, although the price seems quite ambitious, probably driven by a perception of scarcity. There’s a white one I posted on here asking about why it’s been for sale for so long and the result was it’s a potential basket case and in reflection of this the car is vastly overpriced. I think there’s also a hang over from Covid when these kind of cars did have a bull run.
It’s very much the same with the car I’m looking to sell. There’s a fair bit of overpriced stuff, some lovely stuff commanding reasonable money but slow to sell and the mid range is probably overpriced and not selling. Mines mid range condition and I don’t want to give it away, just like any owner.
I’m now currently considering a few options;
Not sell my current toy as I won’t get close to the amount I’d like and sulk like a spoilt brat. I tried to MOT is about 6/8 weeks back and it failed on some nonsense and I’ve not had a free day to go back, so it’s just sat in the garage sulking.
Sell my toy for what it will sell for and purchase a different car to the C6, (perhaps a C5 manual but similar problems). This feels like giving up.
Import a C6 from the states, different set of headaches and not a huge financial gain.
The forth option is to bridge the cash gap between new toy and old but that’s a harder sell with the long haired general.
The reckless option, import two and hope the first covers the second!
Roscobbc
Moderator
Team ZR1 Jon brings-up an interesting point about modern multi-ratio automatic transmissions (and how he modifies them) - and yes I've had a couple, including aa 8 speed auto 1 series BMW diesel. Thia was a really well matched engine/transmission combination......especially considering the very 'short' rpm torque band of a turbo diesel - no doubt some of Jons magic could have raised the rpm and change-up points......but as stock it worked well.
There is a school of thought that an 'old school' M21/M22 4 speed gearbox has a perfect set of gear ratios - programme the ratios in to a desk-top drag similator and the M21/22 (or FoMoCo Top Loader) and the best 1/4 mile times are achieved over alternative transmissions. Of course that doesn't take in to account reaction gear-shift times.....which obviously is where automatics can 'score'.
One would think that 'todays' 6 and 7 speed manual gearboxes would take those four 'supposedly' ideal M21 ratios, stick a 'low' 1st gear in front of the existing 2.20 M21 1st gear and a extra high overdrive ratio 'after' the direct 4 gear ratio. A best of both worlds six speeder?.......er no!. Unfortunately manufacturers Cafe/Emission ratios get in the way of a perfect gear-set. And all the aftermarket retailers selling Tremec 6 speed transmissions all seem to basically market the same sets of ratios that are used on 6 speed newlypurchased 'performance' cars......except perhaps for 6th gear overdrive where you'll get a couple of alternatives.
What puzzles me is that the Tremec 6 speeders were offered in a number of high output/high performance cars - for example the supercharged Camaro ZL1 has different ratios to the aftermarket 6 speed Tremec's commonly available........and take a look at the 1st to 4th/5th gear ratios of the ZL1 specific gearbox........these ratios are almost identical to the old school M21/22's 1st to 4th ratios. One wonders why this is not available as an aftermarket item?
There is a school of thought that an 'old school' M21/M22 4 speed gearbox has a perfect set of gear ratios - programme the ratios in to a desk-top drag similator and the M21/22 (or FoMoCo Top Loader) and the best 1/4 mile times are achieved over alternative transmissions. Of course that doesn't take in to account reaction gear-shift times.....which obviously is where automatics can 'score'.
One would think that 'todays' 6 and 7 speed manual gearboxes would take those four 'supposedly' ideal M21 ratios, stick a 'low' 1st gear in front of the existing 2.20 M21 1st gear and a extra high overdrive ratio 'after' the direct 4 gear ratio. A best of both worlds six speeder?.......er no!. Unfortunately manufacturers Cafe/Emission ratios get in the way of a perfect gear-set. And all the aftermarket retailers selling Tremec 6 speed transmissions all seem to basically market the same sets of ratios that are used on 6 speed newlypurchased 'performance' cars......except perhaps for 6th gear overdrive where you'll get a couple of alternatives.
What puzzles me is that the Tremec 6 speeders were offered in a number of high output/high performance cars - for example the supercharged Camaro ZL1 has different ratios to the aftermarket 6 speed Tremec's commonly available........and take a look at the 1st to 4th/5th gear ratios of the ZL1 specific gearbox........these ratios are almost identical to the old school M21/22's 1st to 4th ratios. One wonders why this is not available as an aftermarket item?
teamzr1
Supporting vendor
Here is some gearing compares with a 2020 C8 with DCT
and others are manual Corvettes with 4, 6 and 7 gears
Also, can see what rear diff gears were
For my 1999 C5 with MN6 manual,
I swapped the 3.42 rear gear to a 3.73 and like that better
2020 C8
C7 Z06 manual 7 speed
2002 C5 6 speed
1992 C4 with manual 4 speed
and others are manual Corvettes with 4, 6 and 7 gears
Also, can see what rear diff gears were
For my 1999 C5 with MN6 manual,
I swapped the 3.42 rear gear to a 3.73 and like that better
2020 C8
C7 Z06 manual 7 speed
2002 C5 6 speed
1992 C4 with manual 4 speed