Camaro returns?
- Thread starter Nassau65
- Start date
Roscobbc
Moderator
Wonder if GM will 'design-out' that sitting ultra low peering over the dashboard/side/rear windows out of a letter box feeling the most recent marques featured. Far better car though IMHO than the equivalent Mustang but a reminder of the 'challenged' driver visibility that a '71-'73 'breadvan' Mustang had.
teamzr1
Supporting vendor
Late 2027 for Camaro and comes with the new 409CI, 6.7L engine that the 2027 Stingrays & Grand Sport has now
This engine also to be used in GM trucks and is a total new design of GM's V8 engines
Being American made in Mi where the 1953 Corvette engines were built
Notice the high compression it has
Not only are the Grand Sport models getting this all new gen 6 engines but so is the Stingrays
The LS6 will be made in Detroit and also be used on other GM models
In its 72-year history, there have only been five generations of Chevy Small Block V8.
Today, GM is proud to unveil the 6th, which debuts as the 6.7-liter “LS6” in the 2027 Corvette Stingray, Grand Sport, and Grand Sport X.
With 535 horsepower, it’s the most powerful base engine ever offered in a Corvette. Its 520 pound-feet of torque makes it the highest production torque of a naturally aspirated V8 ever. The LS6 is where the legacy of the Small Block meets the latest in advanced engineering.
This engine is steeped in history and packing the best technology GM has to offer.
She’s Real Fine, My 409
The “LS6” name has been used throughout GM history, first appearing on a 454-cubic-inch version of the Small Block’s big sibling, the Big-Block, and again in a 5.7-liter Small-Block used in the C5 Corvette Z06 and the original Cadillac CTS-V. Bringing back this name pays tribute to GM V8 history, while also referencing the 6th generation of the Small-Block itself.
The new LS6’s displacement in cubic inches is also the same as another muscle car legend: the 409. Giddy up, giddy up.
“We’re trying to recreate some of what worked in the muscle-car era,” says Mike Kociba, assistant chief engineer for the Small Block.
“We wanted a wide, high torque band, and high power. It feels like we’re bringing a piece of Americana back.”
The specs are mouthwatering:
• 535 horsepower @ 6,100 RPM
• 520 pound-feet of torque @ 4,600 RPM
• 6.7-liter displacement
• 13.0:1 compression ratio
• Kociba and the rest of the Small Block team made an interesting discovery when they first mapped the specifications for the LS6 they could make a bigger, more-powerful engine while also improving emissions and maintaining fuel economy.
• “Historically, when you make large, high-power, high-torque engines, there’s a penalty,” Kociba explained. “But with advanced controls, our new fuel system, and a higher compression ratio, we’ve been able to improve emissions with a larger engine.”
• That’s the benefit of having powerful digital tools to aid in engine design. You can trial more possibilities and, at times, effectively eliminate previous compromises.
• “We were going to make it ‘only’ 6.6 liters, and then we started playing around and realized that by adding two millimeters to the stroke, we get more performance without compromising anything else,” Kociba said. “In the past, we might not have explored that.”
• No Replacement for Displacement (Or Compression Ratio)
• Compared with the LS6’s predecessor, the 6.2-liter LT2, the bump to 6.7 liters comes via extending the stroke (the distance the piston travels up and down) from 92 mm to 100 mm. The bore (the diameter of the piston) remains at 103.25 mm, and just like 100 million-plus Small Blocks before it, the bore spacing (the distance between center of one piston to the next) of the Gen 6 is 4.4 inches.
• Compression ratio – the ratio between the volume of the cylinder at the bottom of the piston's travel and the top is 13.0:1. Automotive enthusiasts will know this is a very high compression ratio, and in fact, it’s the highest ever for a Corvette.
• The team wanted to beat the compression ratio of the legendary 427-cubic-inch L88 Big Block of 1967-1969, a V8 made specifically for racing. “That was 12.5:1 on leaded fuel,” Kociba says. “The only way we could pull off beating that today with unleaded fuel was with our advanced controls.”
• Of course, the high compression ratio of the LS6 provides power, torque, and character, but it also improves thermal efficiency. This is a measure of how much of the potential energy in a fuel is being turned into mechanical energy, rather than waste heat. In simple terms, the LS6 extracts more mechanical energy from the same amount of fuel than its predecessors.
The LS6 torque curve peaks (“peak” is used lightly, here, because we’re talking about a mostly flat line) at 520 lb-ft. Chevy claims that’s more twist than any other free-breathing production V8 ever made, and we’re going to put that statement to the test below, but the fact that it equals the first (LB7) Duramax’s which is a diesel with a turbo built for effortless torque-y towing torque rating means Chevy should be pretty confident in its boast.
This engine also to be used in GM trucks and is a total new design of GM's V8 engines
Being American made in Mi where the 1953 Corvette engines were built
Notice the high compression it has
Not only are the Grand Sport models getting this all new gen 6 engines but so is the Stingrays
The LS6 will be made in Detroit and also be used on other GM models
In its 72-year history, there have only been five generations of Chevy Small Block V8.
Today, GM is proud to unveil the 6th, which debuts as the 6.7-liter “LS6” in the 2027 Corvette Stingray, Grand Sport, and Grand Sport X.
With 535 horsepower, it’s the most powerful base engine ever offered in a Corvette. Its 520 pound-feet of torque makes it the highest production torque of a naturally aspirated V8 ever. The LS6 is where the legacy of the Small Block meets the latest in advanced engineering.
This engine is steeped in history and packing the best technology GM has to offer.
She’s Real Fine, My 409
The “LS6” name has been used throughout GM history, first appearing on a 454-cubic-inch version of the Small Block’s big sibling, the Big-Block, and again in a 5.7-liter Small-Block used in the C5 Corvette Z06 and the original Cadillac CTS-V. Bringing back this name pays tribute to GM V8 history, while also referencing the 6th generation of the Small-Block itself.
The new LS6’s displacement in cubic inches is also the same as another muscle car legend: the 409. Giddy up, giddy up.
“We’re trying to recreate some of what worked in the muscle-car era,” says Mike Kociba, assistant chief engineer for the Small Block.
“We wanted a wide, high torque band, and high power. It feels like we’re bringing a piece of Americana back.”
The specs are mouthwatering:
• 535 horsepower @ 6,100 RPM
• 520 pound-feet of torque @ 4,600 RPM
• 6.7-liter displacement
• 13.0:1 compression ratio
• Kociba and the rest of the Small Block team made an interesting discovery when they first mapped the specifications for the LS6 they could make a bigger, more-powerful engine while also improving emissions and maintaining fuel economy.
• “Historically, when you make large, high-power, high-torque engines, there’s a penalty,” Kociba explained. “But with advanced controls, our new fuel system, and a higher compression ratio, we’ve been able to improve emissions with a larger engine.”
• That’s the benefit of having powerful digital tools to aid in engine design. You can trial more possibilities and, at times, effectively eliminate previous compromises.
• “We were going to make it ‘only’ 6.6 liters, and then we started playing around and realized that by adding two millimeters to the stroke, we get more performance without compromising anything else,” Kociba said. “In the past, we might not have explored that.”
• No Replacement for Displacement (Or Compression Ratio)
• Compared with the LS6’s predecessor, the 6.2-liter LT2, the bump to 6.7 liters comes via extending the stroke (the distance the piston travels up and down) from 92 mm to 100 mm. The bore (the diameter of the piston) remains at 103.25 mm, and just like 100 million-plus Small Blocks before it, the bore spacing (the distance between center of one piston to the next) of the Gen 6 is 4.4 inches.
• Compression ratio – the ratio between the volume of the cylinder at the bottom of the piston's travel and the top is 13.0:1. Automotive enthusiasts will know this is a very high compression ratio, and in fact, it’s the highest ever for a Corvette.
• The team wanted to beat the compression ratio of the legendary 427-cubic-inch L88 Big Block of 1967-1969, a V8 made specifically for racing. “That was 12.5:1 on leaded fuel,” Kociba says. “The only way we could pull off beating that today with unleaded fuel was with our advanced controls.”
• Of course, the high compression ratio of the LS6 provides power, torque, and character, but it also improves thermal efficiency. This is a measure of how much of the potential energy in a fuel is being turned into mechanical energy, rather than waste heat. In simple terms, the LS6 extracts more mechanical energy from the same amount of fuel than its predecessors.
The LS6 torque curve peaks (“peak” is used lightly, here, because we’re talking about a mostly flat line) at 520 lb-ft. Chevy claims that’s more twist than any other free-breathing production V8 ever made, and we’re going to put that statement to the test below, but the fact that it equals the first (LB7) Duramax’s which is a diesel with a turbo built for effortless torque-y towing torque rating means Chevy should be pretty confident in its boast.
teamzr1
Supporting vendor
Set to ride on the rear-drive Alpha 2 platform, the next-gen Camaro is set currently scheduled to enter production in late 2027 at the GM Lansing Grand River plant in Michigan, meaning that should go on sale as a 2028 model.
The facility assembled the last-generation Camaro, and currently produces the Cadillac CT4 (which will soon be discontinued) and Cadillac CT5.
The plant will also manufacture the next-generation CT5, confirmed by GM in October 2025, as well as an upcoming Buick sedan
Hope the 4 door model never gets out of the clay form
The facility assembled the last-generation Camaro, and currently produces the Cadillac CT4 (which will soon be discontinued) and Cadillac CT5.
The plant will also manufacture the next-generation CT5, confirmed by GM in October 2025, as well as an upcoming Buick sedan
Hope the 4 door model never gets out of the clay form
Dorsetsteve
Well-known user
The back reminds me of the Z4 based Supra. Maybe it will look better in a different colour without the stripes, too many vertical contrasting lines on that one.
Llewelyn
CCCUK Member
My first thoughts also. I really like those Supras, I bought one brand new in 2022 and had it for 2 years. Fantastic car but always felt underwhelmed by the ZF8 slushbox despite it being ridiculously easy to drive (very) quicky
Roscobbc
Moderator
I wonder how many blue collar Americans feel 'excluded' from current ownership of a C8 Vette due to escalating purchase prices. It goes without saying that many Brits are excluded from ownership due to the close-to (and often considerably more) six figure purchase price.
I thought to myself (when driving one of Ian Allen's then new presumably run-out Camaro's that it was so good one could choose it as a kinda budget (comparitive) alternative to a C8. Our own Rich Rogers obviously thought so and was very happy with his Camaro.
I thought to myself (when driving one of Ian Allen's then new presumably run-out Camaro's that it was so good one could choose it as a kinda budget (comparitive) alternative to a C8. Our own Rich Rogers obviously thought so and was very happy with his Camaro.
Dorsetsteve
Well-known user
That’s a very hard question to answer, unless you ask an American. From a British standpoint, certainly the new C8 at UK prices feels very expensive. There multiple factors at play here though.
The c8 is more expensive here than the US. The average British person earns less than the average American, even high earners are more common, less than half the percentage of earners here earn over 100k and the exchange rate Dollar/Pound has been on the slide out of our advantage for decades. In short, we have less buying power.
The c8 is more expensive here than the US. The average British person earns less than the average American, even high earners are more common, less than half the percentage of earners here earn over 100k and the exchange rate Dollar/Pound has been on the slide out of our advantage for decades. In short, we have less buying power.
Llewelyn
CCCUK Member
Completely agree - At lets say £80k (which if I remember correctly was roughly the UK launch price), coupled with an attractive low apr finance deal (say 1.9% over two years) I reckon they'd shift no end of them. As it stands, I'd really like a base model C8 but they're just that little bit too far out of reach for me...!
Roscobbc
Moderator
Remembering back to the final years of C5 production (so perhaps late 90's/slash earlier 00's when C6 was first introduced) and our economic situation although vastly improved from the 'major world economy crash of the very late 80's/early '90's had once again taken a bit of a 'dip' once more and high value items like cars were not selling well.......one could buy a new C5 here for early £30/mid £30's - a good buy compared with the usual German stuff.
Yes, introductory price of the C8 was......almost affordable and a good buy comparatively........but in a world now where the onset of electric vehicles and the constantly changing and back-peddling of legislation relating to ICE vehicles has significantly reduced the choices of ICE vehicles. In turn vehicle manufacturers facing reducing numbers of sales either hike prices of vehicles.....or discontinue the model. All these changes perhaps make little difference to 'owners/drivers' of company leased or business supported cars.......for average 'purchasing' car buyers it's 'kiss of death' for personal ownership.
With clever marketing/pricing GM could make a 'new' Camaro a viable proposition for those 'frozen out' of new C8 ownership.
Yes, introductory price of the C8 was......almost affordable and a good buy comparatively........but in a world now where the onset of electric vehicles and the constantly changing and back-peddling of legislation relating to ICE vehicles has significantly reduced the choices of ICE vehicles. In turn vehicle manufacturers facing reducing numbers of sales either hike prices of vehicles.....or discontinue the model. All these changes perhaps make little difference to 'owners/drivers' of company leased or business supported cars.......for average 'purchasing' car buyers it's 'kiss of death' for personal ownership.
With clever marketing/pricing GM could make a 'new' Camaro a viable proposition for those 'frozen out' of new C8 ownership.
Nassau65
CCCUK Member
Brand new US cars have always been expensive here in the UK. Fortunately they devalued quite rapidly after initial purchase and were good buys once a few years old.
The current C8 in the USA is a very expensive item for most. They are now more realistic buys for a number of people as they devalue with age.
Corvettes in the US have always been a high dollar item. 1982 saw it pass $20K for the first time ( $70K in today’s money)
C8’s are becoming more affordable, but brand new ones nowadays are becoming hard to purchase for the majority of US buyers.
The current C8 in the USA is a very expensive item for most. They are now more realistic buys for a number of people as they devalue with age.
Corvettes in the US have always been a high dollar item. 1982 saw it pass $20K for the first time ( $70K in today’s money)
C8’s are becoming more affordable, but brand new ones nowadays are becoming hard to purchase for the majority of US buyers.
Dorsetsteve
Well-known user
Doing a bit of maths. A base C6 coupe in 2006 would cost, inflation accounted for, $83.5k compared to its sticker price of $47.3k.
In 2006 the average U.K. salary was £25k and today 20 years later it’s £32.5k.
In 2006 the average U.K. salary was £25k and today 20 years later it’s £32.5k.