Chuffer
CCCUK Member
Looks a bit like Northrop T - 38 Talon streeeeeaaaached to the limit !
And that was the worlds fastest supersonic advanced trainer way back in 1961 , I had plastic kit model of one when I was kid .
US Navy's Newest Fighter Jets
- Thread starter teamzr1
- Start date
And that was the worlds fastest supersonic advanced trainer way back in 1961 , I had plastic kit model of one when I was kid .
Roscobbc
Moderator
Makes me laugh......we have idiots out there now believing and inferring that we'll be seeing passenger airliners flying at speeds in excess of Mach 1 in the next few months FFS. The X59 is just a test bed to prove the theory.....translating that in to regular passenger transport for the masses will never happen.....even for the wealthy elite it'll take many years before we see it.Looks a bit like Northrop T - 38 Talon streeeeeaaaached to the limit !
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
A bit late to the party ! Concord has had been there and done that years ago !!
antijam
CCCUK Member
....but not without the 'boom'. My first professional job was as a design engineer on Concorde and the aerodynamic compromises on the form of the aircraft were even then a constraint on the payload capacity - Concorde cabin space was very restricted compared to contemporary subsonic passenger aircraft.
While the X59 may well offer solutions to achieving 'boom-less' supersonic flight it's difficult to see the current shape being compatible with commercial passenger flight.
While many countries, including the UK and USA curtailed supersonic flight by Concorde over land, the French were less restrictive. Back in the 80's and 90's we had an old farmhouse in France that I was renovating.....
....and this had a slate roof. Many times when I was working up in the loft Concorde would pass over and the shock wave would rattle every one of the slates, making me jump out of my skin!
Had Concorde been capable of 'silent' supersonic flight this would have certainly improved its economic viability, but I don't think the X59 heralds a new era of supersonic transport just yet.
Chuffer
CCCUK Member
I well remember the French Concord out on test flights in 1970 from memory . Me and my mates had been bumming around France and Spain in our old Commer Van and we camped outside Biarritz for a week . Several times Concord flew over heading out over the Atlantic , the noise was awesome !!....but not without the 'boom'. My first professional job was as a design engineer on Concorde and the aerodynamic compromises on the form of the aircraft were even then a constraint on the payload capacity - Concorde cabin space was very restricted compared to contemporary subsonic passenger aircraft.
While the X59 may well offer solutions to achieving 'boom-less' supersonic flight it's difficult to see the current shape being compatible with commercial passenger flight.
While many countries, including the UK and USA curtailed supersonic flight by Concorde over land, the French were less restrictive. Back in the 80's and 90's we had an old farmhouse in France that I was renovating.....
View attachment 31935
....and this had a slate roof. Many times when I was working up in the loft Concorde would pass over and the shock wave would rattle every one of the slates, making me jump out of my skin!
Had Concorde been capable of 'silent' supersonic flight this would have certainly improved its economic viability, but I don't think the X59 heralds a new era of supersonic transport just yet.
teamzr1
Supporting vendor
The U.K. Royal Navy flagship, HMS Prince of Wales, is now carrying 24 US made F-35B fighters, the largest number of the jets to go aboard either of the U.K.’s two aircraft carriers, or any ship, for that matter.
All 24 of the jets are British, a significant achievement for the British F-35 force, which has long-faced questions about the feasibility of deploying a meaningful number of the short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) jets at sea, without U.S. Marine Corps aircraft making up the numbers.
The Royal Navy announced today that the 24 British F-35Bs were aboard HMS Prince of Wales for planned multinational maneuvers in the Mediterranean, Exercise Falcon Strike. The service has not so far published photos showing all the jets on deck, instead posting imagery from Operation Highmast, the eight-month cruise that took the carrier to the Indo-Pacific region.
HMS Prince of Wales entered the Mediterranean, via the Suez Canal, around a week ago. Six additional British F-35Bs embarked in the carrier once it had arrived in the Med, flying from their base at RAF Marham in England.
As part of the U.K. Carrier Strike Group, the conventionally powered HMS Prince of Wales is accompanied by the Type 45 destroyer HMS Dauntless, the Type 23 frigate HMS Richmond, the replenishment tanker RFA Tidespring, and several allied ships. A Royal Navy Astute class nuclear-powered attack submarine is normally also part of the Carrier Strike Group.
For Exercise Falcon Strike, the U.K. Carrier Strike Group is joined by the Italian frigate Luigi Rizzo, as well as Norwegian warships, for what are Italian Navy-led air and maritime maneuvers.
Commodore James Blackmore, commander of the U.K. Carrier Strike Group, said that Falcon Strike is “a real demonstration of the warfighting readiness” of the group.
The British F-35Bs on the carrier are from the two frontline units, the Royal Air Force’s No. 617 Squadron and the Royal Navy’s 809 Naval Air Squadron, as well as from the training unit, No. 207 Squadron, RAF, which serves as the Operational Conversion Unit (OCU).
It’s notable that, in the past, larger F-35B complements on U.K. carriers were assisted by detaching U.S. Marine Corps aircraft during these cruises.
For example, in 2021, HMS Queen Elizabeth deployed with a Marine Corps-augmented air wing. On that occasion, eight F-35Bs from No. 617 Squadron were joined by 10 from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 211, the “long.” This total is still smaller than the current F-35B complement for Exercise Falcon Strike.
The number of F-35Bs now on HMS Prince of Wales is also bigger than has been deployed aboard any amphibious assault ship by the Marine Corps. Back in 2022, the USS Tripoli (LHA-7) hosted 20 of the jets during a test of the “Lightning Carrier” concept. This is based upon essentially turning a big-deck “Gator Navy” amphibious assault ship into a light aircraft carrier, packed with F-35Bs.
The biggest carrier embarkation involving fifth-generation fighters also makes an interesting parallel with developments in China, which is now also flying the J-35 stealth fighter, as well as fixed-wing airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft from its latest flattop, the Fujian. Elsewhere in the Indo-Pacific region, Japan is meanwhile preparing for regular F-35B operations aboard its two amphibious assault ships that have been modified to become STOVL carriers.
Having a larger number of F-35Bs on board the British carrier means that HMS Prince of Wales can contribute more to Falcon Strike, which also involves air assets from France, Greece, Italy, and the United States.
More importantly, a carrier deployment with 24 British F-35Bs is a major requirement for the declaration of full operating capability for the U.K. Carrier Strike capability, once planned for 2023, then delayed to the end of this year. A 24-aircraft total is the minimum required for this declaration, with the Queen Elizabeth class having the capacity to embark more jets, if required.
The move toward full operating capability is also welcome, considering recent criticism of the British F-35 program.
All 24 of the jets are British, a significant achievement for the British F-35 force, which has long-faced questions about the feasibility of deploying a meaningful number of the short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) jets at sea, without U.S. Marine Corps aircraft making up the numbers.
The Royal Navy announced today that the 24 British F-35Bs were aboard HMS Prince of Wales for planned multinational maneuvers in the Mediterranean, Exercise Falcon Strike. The service has not so far published photos showing all the jets on deck, instead posting imagery from Operation Highmast, the eight-month cruise that took the carrier to the Indo-Pacific region.
HMS Prince of Wales entered the Mediterranean, via the Suez Canal, around a week ago. Six additional British F-35Bs embarked in the carrier once it had arrived in the Med, flying from their base at RAF Marham in England.
As part of the U.K. Carrier Strike Group, the conventionally powered HMS Prince of Wales is accompanied by the Type 45 destroyer HMS Dauntless, the Type 23 frigate HMS Richmond, the replenishment tanker RFA Tidespring, and several allied ships. A Royal Navy Astute class nuclear-powered attack submarine is normally also part of the Carrier Strike Group.
For Exercise Falcon Strike, the U.K. Carrier Strike Group is joined by the Italian frigate Luigi Rizzo, as well as Norwegian warships, for what are Italian Navy-led air and maritime maneuvers.
Commodore James Blackmore, commander of the U.K. Carrier Strike Group, said that Falcon Strike is “a real demonstration of the warfighting readiness” of the group.
The British F-35Bs on the carrier are from the two frontline units, the Royal Air Force’s No. 617 Squadron and the Royal Navy’s 809 Naval Air Squadron, as well as from the training unit, No. 207 Squadron, RAF, which serves as the Operational Conversion Unit (OCU).
It’s notable that, in the past, larger F-35B complements on U.K. carriers were assisted by detaching U.S. Marine Corps aircraft during these cruises.
For example, in 2021, HMS Queen Elizabeth deployed with a Marine Corps-augmented air wing. On that occasion, eight F-35Bs from No. 617 Squadron were joined by 10 from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 211, the “long.” This total is still smaller than the current F-35B complement for Exercise Falcon Strike.
The number of F-35Bs now on HMS Prince of Wales is also bigger than has been deployed aboard any amphibious assault ship by the Marine Corps. Back in 2022, the USS Tripoli (LHA-7) hosted 20 of the jets during a test of the “Lightning Carrier” concept. This is based upon essentially turning a big-deck “Gator Navy” amphibious assault ship into a light aircraft carrier, packed with F-35Bs.
The biggest carrier embarkation involving fifth-generation fighters also makes an interesting parallel with developments in China, which is now also flying the J-35 stealth fighter, as well as fixed-wing airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft from its latest flattop, the Fujian. Elsewhere in the Indo-Pacific region, Japan is meanwhile preparing for regular F-35B operations aboard its two amphibious assault ships that have been modified to become STOVL carriers.
Having a larger number of F-35Bs on board the British carrier means that HMS Prince of Wales can contribute more to Falcon Strike, which also involves air assets from France, Greece, Italy, and the United States.
More importantly, a carrier deployment with 24 British F-35Bs is a major requirement for the declaration of full operating capability for the U.K. Carrier Strike capability, once planned for 2023, then delayed to the end of this year. A 24-aircraft total is the minimum required for this declaration, with the Queen Elizabeth class having the capacity to embark more jets, if required.
The move toward full operating capability is also welcome, considering recent criticism of the British F-35 program.
teamzr1
Supporting vendor
Last week, the U.K.’s Public Accounts Committee released its latest report on the programme. Among others, this highlighted the effects of a lack of overall investment in the program. According to the report, cost-cutting measures have had an adverse impact on the F-35B’s capability, availability to fly, and value for money.
The number of British F-35Bs that will ultimately be available to the Royal Navy’s two carriers has long been a matter of intense debate.
To date, the United Kingdom has only placed firm orders for 48 F-35Bs. The previous Conservative government confirmed it was negotiating to buy another 27 F-35Bs for delivery by 2033. However, this batch of 27 jets will now be divided between F-35As (12) and F-35Bs (15). The conventional takeoff and landing F-35A offers a number of advantages, including being cheaper, possessing a bigger weapons bay, having a nuclear capability, and improved performance in many scenarios. However, it cannot embark on a carrier.
Most analysts consider that many more than 48 F-35Bs would be required to meet the ambition of 24 jets available for the baseline Carrier Strike mission, across two carriers, as opposed to just one. Considering training and other demands, a figure of 60–70 jets is generally thought to be reasonable.
It is for this reason that U.S. Marine Corps F-35Bs have been relied upon to make up the required aircraft numbers during carrier cruises.
Officially, at least, the U.K. Ministry of Defense says that it still expects to procure 138 F-35s over the lifetime of the program. However, this total now includes at least 12 F-35As. Having a smaller pool of F-35Bs will also put more strain on the fleet of STOVL jets that are required for missions aboard the carriers.
Whatever the final F-35B numbers, the Royal Navy is increasingly looking to the potential of uncrewed aircraft to bolster its carrier air wings. The Royal Navy hopes that a combination of drones and long-range weapons will help to make a more balanced ‘hybrid carrier air wing,’ as you can read about here.
In 2023, the Royal Navy revealed details of its plan to fit its two carriers with assisted launch systems and recovery gear, enabling operations by a variety of fixed-wing uncrewed aircraft and, potentially, also conventional takeoff and landing crewed types.
“We are looking to move from STOVL to STOL, then to STOBAR [short takeoff but arrested recovery], and then to CATOBAR [catapult assisted takeoff but arrested recovery],” Colonel Phil Kelly, the Royal Navy’s Head of Carrier Strike and Maritime Aviation, told the Combined Naval Event conference in 2023. “We are looking at a demonstrable progression that spreads out the financial cost and incrementally improves capability.”
By the time a British carrier makes its next scheduled deployment to the Indo-Pacific, planned for 2029, the Ministry of Defense hopes that it will include some kind of collaborative combat aircraft (CCA). This aspiration was laid out by First Sea Lord General Sir Gwyn Jenkins earlier this year, when he said he wanted to “launch the first jet-powered collaborative platform drone as a concept demonstrator off a Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier” before the end of 2026.
Nevertheless, for the foreseeable future, the F-35B remains the cornerstone of the carrier air wing’s strike capability. Putting the largest number of the stealth jets on a Royal Navy carrier is a visible demonstration of the aircraft’s central role and underscores the British F-35Bs’ progress, despite lingering concerns over final aircraft numbers and other criticisms of the program.
The number of British F-35Bs that will ultimately be available to the Royal Navy’s two carriers has long been a matter of intense debate.
To date, the United Kingdom has only placed firm orders for 48 F-35Bs. The previous Conservative government confirmed it was negotiating to buy another 27 F-35Bs for delivery by 2033. However, this batch of 27 jets will now be divided between F-35As (12) and F-35Bs (15). The conventional takeoff and landing F-35A offers a number of advantages, including being cheaper, possessing a bigger weapons bay, having a nuclear capability, and improved performance in many scenarios. However, it cannot embark on a carrier.
Most analysts consider that many more than 48 F-35Bs would be required to meet the ambition of 24 jets available for the baseline Carrier Strike mission, across two carriers, as opposed to just one. Considering training and other demands, a figure of 60–70 jets is generally thought to be reasonable.
It is for this reason that U.S. Marine Corps F-35Bs have been relied upon to make up the required aircraft numbers during carrier cruises.
Officially, at least, the U.K. Ministry of Defense says that it still expects to procure 138 F-35s over the lifetime of the program. However, this total now includes at least 12 F-35As. Having a smaller pool of F-35Bs will also put more strain on the fleet of STOVL jets that are required for missions aboard the carriers.
Whatever the final F-35B numbers, the Royal Navy is increasingly looking to the potential of uncrewed aircraft to bolster its carrier air wings. The Royal Navy hopes that a combination of drones and long-range weapons will help to make a more balanced ‘hybrid carrier air wing,’ as you can read about here.
In 2023, the Royal Navy revealed details of its plan to fit its two carriers with assisted launch systems and recovery gear, enabling operations by a variety of fixed-wing uncrewed aircraft and, potentially, also conventional takeoff and landing crewed types.
“We are looking to move from STOVL to STOL, then to STOBAR [short takeoff but arrested recovery], and then to CATOBAR [catapult assisted takeoff but arrested recovery],” Colonel Phil Kelly, the Royal Navy’s Head of Carrier Strike and Maritime Aviation, told the Combined Naval Event conference in 2023. “We are looking at a demonstrable progression that spreads out the financial cost and incrementally improves capability.”
By the time a British carrier makes its next scheduled deployment to the Indo-Pacific, planned for 2029, the Ministry of Defense hopes that it will include some kind of collaborative combat aircraft (CCA). This aspiration was laid out by First Sea Lord General Sir Gwyn Jenkins earlier this year, when he said he wanted to “launch the first jet-powered collaborative platform drone as a concept demonstrator off a Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier” before the end of 2026.
Nevertheless, for the foreseeable future, the F-35B remains the cornerstone of the carrier air wing’s strike capability. Putting the largest number of the stealth jets on a Royal Navy carrier is a visible demonstration of the aircraft’s central role and underscores the British F-35Bs’ progress, despite lingering concerns over final aircraft numbers and other criticisms of the program.