Are we still convinced that electric vehicles are the best way forward?

[Pinhead]

I think we are missing the point here a little
In a previous employment I worked on barriers installing them up and down the country
Most of the stuff I did was on Bridges where containment was key there were various strengths of barriers avaliable and all rested rigorously down at the mira research facility
The barriers chosen were done so due to various factors like speed, acheavable angle,weight of vehicles on the road and what was underneath
We had barriers that could stop a 44 ton arctic fully laden getting on to a railway line at 56 mph
But we wouldn't put them over small side roads on the motorway where a low containment spec of just a large car would be specd
So basically if you are in a laden van at 3.5 ton or above you will probably be going through if you hit it at a decent speed and angle
It's all about risk vs cost
Most have a design life of 30 years so there is a constant replacement program in place if vehicles get bigger and heavier on average then its very easy to up spec the barriers at point of replacement

In other news for those that have followed my postings before on real life EV ownership
I have sold my model S and a new model 3 face lift is getting delivered tomorrow
And right at this moment I am on my way to collect a C7 I have purchased

In my opinion there is plenty of room for both
Ev for the daily is perfect and a v8 for the weekend

 

[Roscobbc]

I have sold my model S and a new model 3 face lift is getting delivered tomorrow

Questions for you Pinhead. Does owing a Tesla Model S (whether you are the first owner or a subsequent owner) still qualify for 'free' charging at Tesla Supercharger stations? - Given the popularity of Tesla's, certainly with company car users (and especially the Model 3) do you now have issues 'getting on' Supercharger points? Was the 'experiment' with some Supercharger stations (to allow other makes of electric vehicles to charge-up) a success? did it create issues for Tesla owners? curious to understand.

 

[Pinhead]

The free supercharging was offered an all tesla delivered before March 2017
They then pulled the offer
Free supercharging stays with the car it transfers to the new owner
Now when tesla pulled free supercharging they had quite a few canceled orders with owners not willing to upgrade and loose free supercharging
So it came back again but this was for the first owner only
It wasn't time limited but as soon as the car changed ownership it reverted to pay as you go supercharging
It pretty much disappeared for good around 2019 but has come back every now and then as a tool to increase demand

Now this is where things get really tricky
At some point (can't remember the date)
Tesla started to strip free supercharging from the pre 17 cars but to do this they have to own the car
So any that got traded in or returned at end of lease had it taken away
So if its something you want in a car your looking for be very careful that it will actually transfer

 

[teamzr1]

Ford on Thursday introduced the seventh generation of the Explorer, which will no longer be available as a hybrid due to poor demand.

While some automakers are racing to electrify their range, Ford has hit reverse with its best-selling SUV by offering the car with only a 2.3 liter or 3.0 liter gas engine.
Ford blamed poor sales of the hybrid variant, which was first offered with the introduction of the sixth generation in 2020.

Imagine pulling the weight of that vehicle up hills or mountains with these ricer engines

 

[Roscobbc]

We had the Boston Tea Party and now reported in the USA today :

The British EV Party

Leave it to the British to take a potentially good idea and turn it into yet another tyrannical system against its own population.
For instance, it is indeed a good idea to cut down pollution in urban centers, no one would dispute that. But how?

So Britain created the ULEZ an ‘Ultra Low Emission Zone’ in London, where ‘an emissions standard based charge’ is applied to ‘non-compliant road vehicles’.

A network of cameras is checking traffic to make drivers pay every time they enter the zone with their ‘non-compliant’ cars.
Over time, it became an extremely unpopular solution, especially after leftist London Mayor Sadiq Khan greatly expanded the ULEZ.

A phenomenon emerged in which disgruntled citizens started taking out their frustration on the ‘spying cameras’ about a thousand cameras have been damaged or stolen over the last year alone.

That should give the authorities pause and make them rethink the strategy, but have they? NO.

It arises now that London Mayor Khan has hired a ‘goon squad of thugs aggressive men dressed in black, with face tattoos and wearing skeleton balaclavas – to oppress the citizens in order to allegedly protect his hated ULEZ cameras while filming everything with body cameras.

The Transit for London agency (TfL) claims that the guards are held to ‘high standards of professionalism’ and that they were necessary to protect ULEZ cameras from the so-called ‘Blade Runners’.

Self-proclaimed ‘freedom fighters’, the ‘Blade Runners’ have channeled the widespread hatred for the expanded ULEZ, and have been successfully targeting the cameras, gaining something of a folk hero status by a sympathetic population.

In the run-up to London’s mayoral election in May, the Conservative opposition leaders have slammed Khan’s goons as ‘intimidation,’ promising to scrap the ULEZ expansion if elected.

“Mother-of-five Claire Dyer, 47, from Biggin Hill in Bromley, claimed concerned residents lived in fear of the ULEZ protection gang. […]
You have thuggish security, they don’t need to be behaving the way that they are. […] All you can see is their eyes.
They are wearing masks and balaclavas even that might have skeletons on them. […] They seem to be above the law.”

The ‘gang’ presents itself as TfL representatives, but they are, in fact, outside contractors.

“Why are they trying to harass people?
We are not aggressive or violent, just every day people. We are not hardened criminals. […] It feels like there has been a direct order to get us accused of something we haven’t done. […] We are not inner city London. We have elderly [people] who live in the area who now can’t leave their homes.”

“Conservative mayoral candidate [for London] Susan Hall said: ‘Sadiq Khan’s masked ULEZ enforcers intimidating and scaring locals is outrageous. Londoners deserve respect, not fear. I will put an end to this intimidation by scrapping the ULEZ expansion on day one if elected in May’.”
A TfL spokesperson said ‘security workers’ can wear face coverings only if they feel threatened by being closely filmed.

They added:

“We have hired a small number of qualified security staff who are suitably licensed. They are held to high standards of professionalism.
Unfortunately, our contractors have been subjected to threats and abuse while carrying out their duties so they are advised to record any issues on body-worn cameras to deescalate conflict and if necessary, record evidence for police investigations.

Vandalism is unacceptable and all incidents on our network are reported to the police for investigation.
‘Criminal damage to ULEZ cameras or vehicles puts the perpetrators at risk of prosecution and injury, while simultaneously risking the safety of the public.”

The vandalism against the cameras will not stop the Ultra Low Emissions Zone, TfL insists.
All targeted cameras are repaired or replaced as soon as possible.

On the subject of the Boston Tea Party - have you heard this rock song from a few years back - SAHB (Sensational Alex Harvey Band) -

 

[Chuffer]

On the subject of the Boston Tea Party - have you heard this rock song from a few years back - SAHB (Sensational Alex Harvey Band) -

Quite a few years back and the some !!! That Top of the Pops gig must have been one of the few gigs Alex Harvey did stone cold sober . He had quite a reputation as Glasgow tough nut and he drank line a drain . Saw him twice live back in the day and was off his face both times . The second time was at Northampton Collage circa 1970 and me and my mate walked out after about the third song ( if you could call it that !! ) . He could barely stand and couldn`t string two words together . I dare say a few illegal substances were involved too .

 

[Roscobbc]

Quite a few years back and the some !!! That Top of the Pops gig must have been one of the few gigs Alex Harvey did stone cold sober . He had quite a reputation as Glasgow tough nut and he drank line a drain . Saw him twice live back in the day and was off his face both times . The second time was at Northampton Collage circa 1970 and me and my mate walked out after about the third song ( if you could call it that !! ) . He could barely stand and couldn`t string two words together . I dare say a few illegal substances were involved too .

His 'passing' wasn't really a surprise 'in the day' - saw them several times - quite possibly the best 'live' band I ever saw (and I saw many) - sadly the McKenna brothers died recently - their superb lead guitarist Zal Cleminson is still going (tbh I don't particularly care for his current music) - band is called Sin Dogs.

 

[teamzr1]

West Virginia and South Dakota lawmakers have introduced legislation that prevents any county or city in either state from limiting access to internal combustion engines (ICE) and related technology.
Other states (Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, and North Carolina) have already passed similar legislation and resolutions.

The bill was introduced in West Virginia by Gary Howell, a Republican delegate who is also chairman emeritus of SEMA's State Automotive Enthusiast Leadership Caucus.
Howell's bill aims to prevent limiting access to engines powered by any particular source, not just fossil fuels.
In South Dakota, the bill is awaiting consideration by the House Local Government Committee.

SEMA has come out in support of both states' bills, claiming that the states' residents, not their governments, should be allowed to choose the type of vehicle technology that best serves them.

 

[Roscobbc]

It seems that two of the worlds largest auto manufacturers (BMW & Toyota) are now 'bigging-up' alternative ICE fueled (Hydrogen) tech and engines for the near future. Currently there are virtually no hydrogen filling stations.......

 

[teamzr1]

Americans were sold the promise that electric vehicles would bring production companies and an influx of jobs to small towns nationwide as part of a modern day gold rush.

However, as interest in EVs has slipped, lithium and nickel facilities of metals used in lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles are taking cost-cutting measures including mass layoffs and suspending operations.

Car buyers are still reluctant to trade in their gas-guzzling vehicle for an EV over the high price tag and concerns about their ability to easily charge the vehicle.
The waning interest in EVs has caused the price of lithium to dropped by 90 percent since January of last year.
In response, Ford has slashed 1,400 jobs at its once-promising lithium factory in Michigan while General Motors laid off all of its nearly 1,000 workers at its plant in Detroit

On average, it takes carmakers three weeks longer to sell an electric vehicle than a standard gas vehicle, prompting companies to offer discounts and lower interest-rate deals to draw in buyers.

As a result, companies including General Motors (GM) and Ford were forced to slow the expansion of EV development and battery production plants even as they made new promises to open more production plants in the next two years.

‘It's true, the pace of EV growth has slowed, which has created some uncertainty,’ Ahole Mary Barra, the chairman and CEO of General Motors said in an earnings call last month.

She claimed GM has 100,000 reservations for EV pickups for this year into next year but expressed the caveat that if the demand for EVs changes, the company will instead look to building more internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles.

‘We know the EV market is not going to grow linearly,’ GM’s CFO, Paul Jacobson, said in the earnings call, adding:
‘We are prepared to flex between ICE and EV production.’

This marks a significant shift from GM’s goals in 2021 that it would sell only fully electric vehicles by 2035 and invest $27 billion in EVs, Barra said in a LinkedIn post at the time.

In February 2023, Ford promised to build a $3.5 billion electric vehicle battery plant in Michigan to take advantage of Joey Biden’s proposed landmark climate law that would ensure two-thirds of all cars sold in the U.S. would be fully electric by 2032.

Biden is expected to back down from the stringent measures to give car companies time to make the switch to EVs, even as more American consumers turned to hybrid vehicles than the fully electric alternative last year

Hybrid vehicles accounted for 8.3 percent of car sales in 2023 compared with fully electric vehicles accounting for 6.9 percent of cars sold.



Because EV sales aren’t increasing as fast as car companies expected, the slowdown of lithium and nickel production means people are losing their jobs in a once-promising industry.

This comes as the prices for lithium and nickel collapse, affecting major lithium production companies in the U.S., like Albemarle, which was supposed to begin construction on a lithium plant in South Carolina this year.

Albemarle planned to produce enough lithium to power 2.4 million EVs annually, but the company was forced to pause spending on the plant and lay off four percent of its workforce, amounting to 300 employees.

‘Where prices are today, the economics aren’t there for those projects,’ said Albemarle’s chief executive Kent Masters.

‘Ultimately it all stems from demand, and demand is just not showing up to where all these CEOs thought.

‘So a lot of the initial targets put out by GM or Ford a couple of years ago have maybe proven to be a bit too optimistic and probably too aggressive,’ Gabe Daoud, a sustainable energy senior analyst at TD Cowen said

‘I think everybody was expecting the entire car fleet to change overnight and go electric, but that’s obviously just impossible and impractical.’

 

[teamzr1]

The politics of forcing Americans to buy expensive and sometimes unreliable electric vehicles, along with the reality that consumers just won’t go along, have prompted Joey Biden to give up at least a portion of his green ideology, the goal to abruptly change American’s transportation away from internal combustion engines.

A report from Business Insider said his agenda-driven administration is planning to back off federal rules that require the construction and sales of more and more EVs.

Now, the report said, automakers might not have to reach a 60% EV production benchmark until 2032.
The reality is that demand for those vehicles, given their reliability, range, charging, expense and other issues, has plunged in recent months.

Business Insider said, “The incoming revision comes amid continuing pressure from car companies and the United Auto Workers union to ease the requirements, as well as loud criticism from Republicans and their presidential candidate front-runner Donald Trump.”

Even Shawn Fain, United Auto Workers chief, which endorsed Biden, has “expressed concern” about the short time frame Biden had demanded earlier for the entire industry, and all consumers, to change over.

Business Insider pointed out that the demand for EVs, “pulled back” drastically in 2023.
In fact, dealers have been “turning away” their allocations of electric cars because they were not seeing the sales keep up with supply.

Fox News commentator Liz Peek had some thoughts on the scheming by Biden to force Americans into EVs, then pull back on that campaign in order to try to win another four years in control of America.

“Surprise! Joey Biden is running away from his push for electric vehicles arguably his most important climate program, as fast as his 81-year-old legs can carry him. Common sense and sinking polls in Michigan have broken through Biden’s climate panic; it’s about time.”

She also noted there was the factor from BYD, China’s leader maker of electric cars.

She explained, “The New York Times, the favored errand boy for the Biden White House, delivered the head-spinning turnaround on Sunday of a holiday weekend, under the radar. In essence,
Biden has extended the timetable for lowering tailpipe emissions several years into the future, a backtracking sure to infuriate the climate lobby and especially climate-obsessed young voters. The president’s standing with that latter cohort is already shrinking; a recent poll showed Donald Trump running ahead of Biden with registered voters under the age of 35.”

The Times had outlines Biden’s new plans to “relax” EPA demands for emission limits.

Peek pointed out, “The EPA celebrated the tripling of EV sales during Biden’s presidency and the building of 130,000 charging stations. That sounds impressive, except that electrics represented less than 8% of all new car sales last year and the U.S. will need an estimated two million charging ports by 2032.
Further, California already has been forced to issue advisories to electric car owners not to charge their vehicles at certain times because the state’s electric grid cannot handle the load.

And it as Cox Automotive that reported the average price for a new EV was nearly $51,000,
when the “old-fashioned gas guzzlers” were going for an average of $34,000.

Further, Peek noted the “Reports of cold weather hindering charging operations and battery lives being drained by sub-freezing temperatures have further squelched enthusiasm.”
Automakers were losing their shirts, with Ford taking a hit of $36,000 for “each” EV it made.

“Those issues have not swayed a White House consumed by climate alarmist. What has gotten their attention is the political risk of losing Michigan, a critical swing state.
A recent Fox News survey shows Trump leading Biden 47 percent to 45 percent in the Wolverine state.
The Real Clear Politics average of Michigan polls shows Trump ahead by 5 points.”

Her own network's newest polling shows 6% of 2020 Biden voters have switched their preference to Trump, enough to change the outcome of an election.
Biden also faces new opposition from the state’s large Arab-American population, whose members are charging Biden has failed to meet their demands regarding the Hamas terror war the Gaza-based organization launched against Israel.

Rank-and-file autoworkers also are alarmed by Biden’s EV push, since it takes fewer worker-hours to make them.

And there are the Chinese products, which have been selling more than Tesla around the world, and might soon be made in Mexico, meaning they could be imported economically

 

[teamzr1]

Mercedes-Benz has backtracked on their plan to transition to selling only electric vehicles after 2030, with company officials saying that “market conditions” have not allowed that to happen.
It was just three years ago when the German luxury vehicle manufacturer announced that it would go “all-electric,” the Verge reported at the time.

The company said it would commit $47 billion to electrifying its fleet, with CEO and board chair Ola Källenius saying, “We are convinced, we can do it with strong profitability, and we believe that focus on electrical is the right way to build a successful future and to enhance the value of Mercedes Benz.”

Those plans were scrapped this week in the company’s fourth quarter earnings statement:

“Customers and market conditions will set the pace of the transformation. The company plans to be in a position to cater to different customer needs, whether it’s an all-electric drivetrain or an electrified combustion engine, until well into the 2030s.”

The automobile giant went on to state that its electric vehicle sales are expected to only reach a maximum of 50 percent of the overall sales in the second half of this decade.
The business model change comes after multiple highly-publicized instances of Mercedes-Benz electric vehicles catching on fire and causing massive damage.

An EQB model caught ablaze while being charged in a car showroom in Malaysia on New Year’s Eve 2023, with video footage showing the terrifying moment a portion of the building went up in flames.

The fire destroyed “about 90 percent of the car, five percent of the showroom building structure, and 20 percent of the electric vehicle charging bay” the local fire and rescue operation commander told the Star.

Earlier in the year, a new Mercedes-Benz EQE350+ electric vehicle spontaneously caught fire while parked in a Nocatee, Florida home garage, causing an estimated $1 million in damage to the house.

The car wasn’t even charging when it caught fire

 

[Roscobbc]

Couple all the above........and later in vehicle life cycle and when its perhaps with 2nd, 3rd and 4th owners who may not live in a location where charging is possible, so using trailing leads out in to the street - vehicle's electrical sockets and system have had many thousands of charge cycles etc etc......one can see a huge recipe for disaster!

 

[phild]

Couple all the above........and later in vehicle life cycle and when its perhaps with 2nd, 3rd and 4th owners who may not live in a location where charging is possible, so using trailing leads out in to the street - vehicle's electrical sockets and system have had many thousands of charge cycles etc etc......one can see a huge recipe for disaster!

Its no wonder insurance costs are rocketing.

 

[teamzr1]

Apple should stick with making kid games
This is what they think customers would see as a car ?
Any guy driving this should be beat up

Apple on Tuesday notified employees it was killing the 'Apple car', a much-anticipated project which had been in the pipeline for more than a decade.
The move to abandon its electric car plan was revealed in an internal memo circulated to around 2,000 company employees, Bloomberg reported.

It said that some employees on the team that had been developing the car, known as the Special Projects Group, will be moved to its artificial intelligence (AI) division.
However, not everybody would be saved, and some layoffs would be inevitable, the outlet reported.

The cancelation of the project comes as a bit of a shock. Just last month, Bloomberg itself reported the company would launch the car as early as 2028 and reduce its self-driving abilities.
The memo came from Apple chief operating officer Jeff Williams and Kevin Lynch, a vice president in charge of the project, Bloomberg reported.

Apple's electric car has been planned since at least 2014, and rumors around what it would entail have evolved over that period.
Though its initial plans were to create a fully autonomous vehicle, it recently pared back plans. Executives were also reportedly concerned that at the target price of $100,000 profit margins would be precariously slim.

 

[CaptainK]

Executives were also reportedly concerned that at the target price of $100,000 profit margins would be precariously slim.

Looking at the car, and also the 100k price, I don't think profit margins are the main thing to be concerned about - more about how people are gonna be chundering after seeing it, and going "100k? You're havin a giraffe mate"

And after experiencing just a little bit of "self driving" recently in the form of "lane assist" on my new Skoda. Well, you can shove all forms of self driving right where the sun don't shine thankyou - I prefer NOT to die because the car wants to drag me into hedges or oncoming traffic in the small roads (and bigger B roads) around me, or lorries on motorways.

 

[teamzr1]

Electric vehicles can release more pollution than gas-powered vehicles, according to a report that has recently resurfaced.

The study, which was published in 2022 but has begun circulating again after being cited in a WSJ op-ed, found that brakes and tires release 1,850 times more particulate matter compared to modern tailpipes which have filters that reduce emissions.

It found that EVs are 30 percent heavier on average than gas-powered vehicles, which causes the brakes and tire treads to wear out faster than standard cars and releases tiny, often toxic particles into the atmosphere.

EV batteries weigh about 1,000 pounds, and can result in tire emissions that are nearly 400 times more than tailpipe emissions.
Particle pollution can increase health problems including heart disease, asthma, lung disease and in extreme cases, can lead to hospitalization, cancer, and premature death.

It comes as California is working to impose a complete ban on all gas vehicles by 2035.

New gasoline-powered vehicles don’t release the same amount of emissions as older vehicles, emitting only one percent of all particulate matter (air pollution) in California, with the majority of emissions coming from older vehicles.
New gasoline cars are created to be 'cleaner,' by updating the trims of their internal combustion engines to include particulate filters that reduce emissions to below 1/1000th of a gram per mile.

The EVs increased weight due to their lithium-ion batteries cause the tire treads to wear faster, ultimately producing more emissions.
The study, conducted by the firm Emissions Analytics, said the main difference between tailpipe and tire emissions is that the majority of particulate emissions released from the tire go directly into the soil and water, while exhaust negatively affects the air quality.

The effects of tire composition come down to the materials the tire is made from, the study reported.
Light-duty tires are typically made from synthetic rubber which is developed using crude oil natural rubber adds fillers and additives, some of which are recognized carcinogens.

Emissions Analytics tested the tire wear on both EV and gas-powered vehicles after driving them at least 1,000 miles.
The researchers used a sampling system to collect particles immediately behind each tire and then measured the size of the particles emitted from the tread.

It found that the greater the vehicle's mass and weight, the more rapidly the tire particulate emissions would be released due to the increased torque between the tires and the road.
A separate 2020 report by the Emissions Analytics firm said that tires are likely to be a major concern in the coming years as ‘consumers switch to bigger and heavier cars.’

‘Research shows they contribute to microplastic marine pollution, as well as air pollution from finer particles,’ the report continued.
The average Hyundai electric vehicle weighs more than 3,700 pounds compared to the gas-powered alternative which weighs 3,000 pounds.

Meanwhile, Volvo’s EV weighs 4,662 pounds while its gas-powered vehicle weighs 3,726, but the Ford F150 EV truck comes in at a whopping 6,000 pounds, 2,000 pounds more than the gas option.

 

[Letank]

Euro 7 emissions regulations will introduce tyre and brake particulate limits (amongst many other things) in EU and Northern Ireland in the next few years. It will probably take a year or two longer until Great Britain has something similar though.

The EU7 tyre tests will be at component level (non vehicle specific), so the emphasis will be on tyre manufacturers to utilise better materials/technology to ensure each tyre model complies with the regulation.

At least where brake particulates are concerned, EVs and hybrids produce significantly less than ICE vehicles due to the majority of normal braking being done via regen to improve overall efficiency.

 

[Chuffer]

Apple should stick with making kid games
This is what they think customers would see as a car ?
Any guy driving this should be beat up

Apple on Tuesday notified employees it was killing the 'Apple car', a much-anticipated project which had been in the pipeline for more than a decade.
The move to abandon its electric car plan was revealed in an internal memo circulated to around 2,000 company employees, Bloomberg reported.

It said that some employees on the team that had been developing the car, known as the Special Projects Group, will be moved to its artificial intelligence (AI) division.
However, not everybody would be saved, and some layoffs would be inevitable, the outlet reported.

The cancelation of the project comes as a bit of a shock. Just last month, Bloomberg itself reported the company would launch the car as early as 2028 and reduce its self-driving abilities.
The memo came from Apple chief operating officer Jeff Williams and Kevin Lynch, a vice president in charge of the project, Bloomberg reported.

Apple's electric car has been planned since at least 2014, and rumors around what it would entail have evolved over that period.
Though its initial plans were to create a fully autonomous vehicle, it recently pared back plans. Executives were also reportedly concerned that at the target price of $100,000 profit margins would be precariously slim.

View attachment 25539

Made by Apple but looks like a real Lemon

 

[Chuffer]

Looking at the car, and also the 100k price, I don't think profit margins are the main thing to be concerned about - more about how people are gonna be chundering after seeing it, and going "100k? You're havin a giraffe mate"

And after experiencing just a little bit of "self driving" recently in the form of "lane assist" on my new Skoda. Well, you can shove all forms of self driving right where the sun don't shine thankyou - I prefer NOT to die because the car wants to drag me into hedges or oncoming traffic in the small roads (and bigger B roads) around me, or lorries on motorways.

Was travelling up the M1 recently in my mates new Audi and thought it was tram lining the HGV ruts but he said it was the Lane Assist taking over . Bloody aweful experience and just another `toy` that supposedly compensates for crap drivers that can`t drive properly !!