Are we still convinced that electric vehicles are the best way forward?

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
The effects of third world 'emerging economies', China, India, probably most of the Pacific basin churning out endless and ever increasing levels of airborne and other toxic waste with good old blighty and a fair bit of Europe is reminicent of living in your street, with your double/triple glazing, cavity and other insulation with your heat pump and solar panels with your hybrid or electric vehicle parked in the garage all minimising local pollution.........yet all your neighbours are running diesel 4X4's, with log burners backing-up their oil fired central heating which (along with the house lights) is running permanently during winter months.
Precisely the point : but can we get our politicians to grasp that point ? NO ! They are too busy with their own personal agendas and massaging their political egos , not to mention piling punitive taxation on us all in the name of `saving the planet`.
From memory , the UK produces less than 5% of the worlds green house gasses and our ICE vehicles contribute just 0.3% of that 5% so go figure what the minute amount is that we produce whilst no one else gives a damn . 😡
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
Just a thought

China is the biggest user of burning coal that emits thousands of tons of pollution into the air and adds to global warming
The Earth rotates, and they say it takes less than 3 days for that filthy air to be over the USA
Factor in all the other dirty countries, so unless every one went green the few countries that emit less crap
all it does is causes hell of the people who are forced into green standards
Southern Ca being on fire last 2 weeks, over 12,000 homes burnt down and all the other large fires there,
do as much to dirty air and warming as most of the other states,
 

phild

CCCUK Member
Precisely the point : but can we get our politicians to grasp that point ? NO ! They are too busy with their own personal agendas and massaging their political egos , not to mention piling punitive taxation on us all in the name of `saving the planet`.
From memory , the UK produces less than 5% of the worlds green house gasses and our ICE vehicles contribute just 0.3% of that 5% so go figure what the minute amount is that we produce whilst no one else gives a damn . 😡

But the measures that try to force us to be green do generate a hell of a lot of tax revenue for central and local government. That, i suspect, is the key motivator for those in power.
 

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
But the measures that try to force us to be green do generate a hell of a lot of tax revenue for central and local government. That, i suspect, is the key motivator for those in power.
Of course it is ! What better way of generating income than taxation of something the populace cannot do without . It is the modern day equivalent of the 17 century England`s window tax .
 

Blackzed

CCCUK Member
Graph of coal consumption up to 2020, because that is where most electricity is generated.
So anyone extolling the virtues of EV are lying to themselves and everyone else.
Hydrogen as a fuel will produce mostly water vapour, which is strangely the biggest greenhouse affecting substance.
There are millions of aircraft flights every year, no emissions caps on them.
Screenshot_20250122_105239_Google.jpg
 

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
People need to wake up and smell the coffee , but will that happen ? Nooooooooooooooooooooo !
As many members know , I am a railway buff and have been involved in Heritage Steam Railways all my adult life . Successive UK governments have killed off all UK coal production so we now ship in coal from all over the world to sustain the demand ... where`s the carbon footprint of all that ??? All these railways provide jobs both paid and voluntary and a lot of income to their local economies . At the last count , throughout England , Scotland and Wales there are 75 Standard Gauge railways , 75 Narrow Gauge railways and 34 Heritage Steam Railway Centres not to mention a miriad of Miniature Railways . That`s a heck of a lot of coal ( most of it crap ) sailing across the oceans in huge diesel powered ships .
 

CaptainK

Administrator
That`s a heck of a lot of coal ( most of it crap ) sailing across the oceans in huge diesel powered ships .
It was quite an eye opener when I did my course at the WSR last year and they were switching from their last supplies of Welsh coal to the Polish(?) stuff. Certainly could see the difference in it, and the output it produces. Silly Governments.
 

Chuffer

CCCUK Member
It was quite an eye opener when I did my course at the WSR last year and they were switching from their last supplies of Welsh coal to the Polish(?) stuff. Certainly could see the difference in it, and the output it produces. Silly Governments.
Unfortunately the last supplies of Welsh coal ceased with the enforced closure of Ffos y fran in South Wales despite a legal battle for it stay open . It was the largest open cast coal mine in the UK . Poland is just ` down the road` in comparison to Colombia where a lot of steam coal comes from ( 2.3 million tons in 2016 !!! ) but now significantly decreased . Plus Australia and the USA are other suppliers . Also Russia but that has dropped off for obvious reasons . The Great Central Railway where I volunteer now had been using Colombian coal and I joked that it smelled like Cocaine burning :ROFLMAO: . Back in my loco fireman days the Severn Valley Railway it purchased Russian coal as a cost cutting measure but all us crews complained as it burned like a wet sack , made masses of ash that choked the firebox up and spread ash out the chimney like the fall out from Vesuvius !! They ovoids.jpg eventually stopped buying it .
The current trend is for Ovoids which is basically reconstituted coal `glued` together in uniform shape and size as can be seen in the photo . It lacks the high calorific value of good quality steam coal and needs sustained high firebox temperatures to burn properly which is never achieved on short journey , low speed heritage railways . The bonding agent also gums up the fire bars of the great . In summery , it`s ok for other countries to mine coal and sell it all around as long as good old UK doesn`t do it and our politicians can smugly band on about `doing our bit ` for the planet .
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
Multiple GTP manufacturers have voiced concerns over the number of high-voltage related issues that have occurred in the buildup to this weekend’s Rolex 24 at Daytona, with Porsche LMDh factory director Urs Kuratle admitting that he ‘hopes it doesn’t turn into a pandemic’ in the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship season opener.

Both Porsche Penske Motorsport and BMW M Team RLL have been forced to change at least two of the spec LMDh hybrid powertrains each since the start of the Roar Before the Rolex 24, with one source indicating that as many as ten batteries have been affected or replaced at Daytona International Speedway altogether.

The first apparent failure came during the opening day of the Roar when the No. 7 Penske Porsche 963 of Felipe Nasr ground to a halt on the backstretch and was forced to jump out of the car per IMSA’s HV safety protocols.

The No. 25 Team RLL BMW M Hybrid V8 of Sheldon van der Linde, which stopped on track in the early stages of qualifying on Thursday, was also diagnosed as a HV-related issue.
Multiple other GTP cars are understood to have also suffered HV-related issues to varying degrees, including both customer Porsche 963s during the Roar.

“I don’t hope it’s a pandemic,” Kuratle told selected reporters on Friday afternoon.
“We just came from a meeting discussing high-voltage issues. I don’t know the total number of changed batteries, but it’s definitely too many, that’s for sure.
“We had a meeting today, including [with] the governance bodies, and Bosch and [Fortescue Zero] and all the involved parties. We hope the situation is under control.”

Kuratle noted that the issues with the hybrid powertrain, which is not linked to gearbox provider Xtrac, have all been different forms of problems.
Bosch Motorsport supplies the spec MGU, while Fortescue Zero, formerly WAE Technologies, is charged with the single-supply battery system for the hybrid prototypes.

“They’re doing a great job, but it is fair to say that from the reliability point of view, it looks like we did a step backwards compared to last year on this one.“And that’s something to find out why that is.”

Porsche’s VP of Motorsport Thomas Laudenbach added: “Coming to the third season now, coming to the most important race of the IMSA season, it doesn’t give you the best feeling.
“On the other side, I think everybody in the world is really trying everything to make sure that we will not have any influence for any competitor tomorrow, because that would be the worst case.

“We don’t want to have any incident in the race due to a spec part.
“It’s probably not the best feeling.”
BMW M Motorsport director Andreas Roos confirmed the issue of the No. 25 BMW in qualifying as “clearly an issue with the high voltage system.”
It’s understood BMW has made at least three battery changes since the start of on-track action last week.

“The cars are now back in a good shape,” said Roos on Friday morning. “But clearly it’s not what you want to have in qualifying that the car stops on track.
When asked by Sportscar365 if there’s any cause for concern, Roos said: “At the end you always feel better when there’s no issue at all happening in practice and testing.

“For sure there’s a bit of a concern, but on the other hand we showed now we brought everything together and had a good car in FP3 and that’s how we want to go into the race.”
Porsche Penske managing director Jonathan Diuguid indicated the issues haven’t been yet tracked to a certain batch of parts.

It’s understood there have not been any updates to the components for the third year of the LMDh platform, although Diuguid described “some new pieces” in a “production batch.”
Porsche Penske is understood to be changing the batteries again on both of its factory entries tonight, ahead of tomorrow’s race start.

“But we are not sitting here with a warm, fuzzy feeling about the race.”
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
Bye Bye EV mandate and strict fuel mileage rules !
In his first action, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy axed Biden’s CAFE fuel economy standards that were seen by critics as a de facto EV mandate.
WASHINGTON — Yesterday, Sean Duffy was officially sworn in as the 20th Secretary of the United States Department of Transportation (USDOT). Secretary Duffy was administered the oath of office by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas at the U.S. Supreme Court, and was joined by his family.
Upon arrival at USDOT headquarters, Secretary Duffy’s first act was signing a memorandum directing staff to start the process of resetting Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards, which will ultimately lower the price of a car for American consumers and eliminate the electric vehicle mandate.

“I am deeply honored by the trust placed in me by President Trump to lead this important Department and for the Senate in swiftly confirming my nomination,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy.
“We are already hard at work executing the President's vision to usher in a golden age of transportation by taking immediate action to remove government overreach and lower costs for hardworking Americans.

The memorandum signed today specifically reduces the burdensome and overly restrictive fuel standards that have needlessly driven up the cost of a car in order to push a radical Green New Deal agenda.
The American people should not be forced to sacrifice choice and affordability when purchasing a new car.”

The memorandum signed by the Secretary directs the Office of the General Counsel, the Office of the Undersecretary for Policy, and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to immediately initiate a rulemaking to rescind or replace all existing CAFE standards.

As a result of the regulatory costs, fuel economy standards have diminished the strength of America’s auto industry and denied Americans the full range of affordable vehicles they need.

According to data from Cox Automotive

  • From March 2021 to March 2024, the cost of a car increased by a total of 15.5%, from an average of $40,881 to an average of $47,218.
  • Current rule requires all passenger cars and light trucks to meet a standard of 50.4 miles per gallon (mpg) in Model Year 2031. This government mandate has dramatically increased the average price of a new car to nearly $48,000, driving up the cost and making it unaffordable for American consumers.
  • The price of a car has continued to spiral. In March 2024, of the 275 new-vehicle models available for purchase, only eight had transaction prices below $25,000. By comparison, in March 2021, more than 20 vehicles had transaction prices below $25,000.
This direction will implement Executive Order 14148, titled Initial Rescissions of Harmful Executive Orders and Actions, and Executive Order 14154, titled Unleashing American Energy, which were issued by President Trump on January 20, 2025.

You can read the full memorandum by clicking here.

Or read what I attached below
 

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Pinhead

CCCUK Member
Ah but then with the 25% tarrifs on imports from Mexico and Canada coming in on Saturday and many cars or parts coming from there will prices actually go down or just up by less than they otherwise would ?
 

CaptainK

Administrator
I can't see car prices coming down much - auto companies have invested in research and dev etc for this stuff and will want money back etc, even if they don't implement it. That and they want all the money they can get.
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
The administration of now-former President Obama/Biden tried to bankroll the use of electric school buses at government schools across the country.

But as the electric buses continue to have massive reliability issues, some schools regret taking the federal handouts and now want help from the Environmental Protection Agency to get themselves out of the program.

Maine Department of Education Commissioner Pender Makin wrote a letter to the agency voicing concerns with the program, asking for waived penalties for not using buses provided by manufacturer Lion Electric, according to a Monday report from WGME-TV in Portland, Maine.

“Specifically, we urge the agency to pursue legal remedies, including claw-backs of federal funding or other resources provided to the company,” he wrote.
There are at least six districts reporting massive problems with Lion Electric school buses they bought through the federal program.

The six electric buses received by Yarmouth Schools have been with the district for a year and a half, but they have only been used a few times because of functionality issues, per WGME-TV.

“We are trying to work with Lion to have those buses replaced, or to receive compensation for those buses, but really not making much progress at this point and time,” Yarmouth Superintendent Andrew Dolloff said in comments to the station.
“We run them for only a day or so and then we get error messages about engine failures or battery failures,” he described.

Dolloff reported difficulties in communicating with a representative from Lion Electric, which does not have any staffers in the area to handle bus maintenance.
“We are not able to run them until those messages are cleared,” Dolloff added.

WPFO-TV in Waterville, Maine, reported on the same issue at government schools in the state, noting that the Biden administration earmarked $3 billion for the project across the country.
As of last fall, the EPA burned $1 billion of those funds to put just 2,000 electric buses on the roads.

For those keeping score at home, that’s a healthy $300,000 per electric bus, which is much more expensive than your typical diesel school bus.
Even beyond the inflated cost, the poor reliability of these electric buses points to the folly of trying to manipulate the free market for political reasons.

While electric vehicles are advancing in their sophistication, they still have reliability issues that do not affect gas-powered alternatives, such as the fact that they do not charge as easily in the winter.
That is, of course, a relevant factor for Maine, which receives quite a bit of winter weather.

Despite all of these concerns, rather than simply waiting a few more years and allowing the free market to advance the technology, Biden and his handlers put their thumbs on the scale.
Responding to federal handouts, producers and consumers alike shifted toward making and selling more electric vehicles,
overlooking reliability issues to access those federal dollars.

Now they just want their money back.
 

teamzr1

Supporting vendor
Ford Motor Company has reported a $5.1 billion loss in its electric vehicle and software business for 2024, with expectations of losing even more in 2025.

The automaker reported substantial losses in its electric vehicle (EV) and software division, known as Model e.
The company lost $5.1 billion in this segment in 2024, a significant increase from the $4.7 billion lost in the previous year.
Furthermore, Ford predicts that losses will continue to mount, potentially reaching $5.5 billion in 2025.

Despite these setbacks in the EV business, Ford’s traditional gas-powered vehicles continue to perform well, generating sufficient revenue to keep the company profitable overall.
The automaker reported a full-year net income of $5.9 billion and an adjusted earning of $10.2 billion. However, Ford cautioned that its earnings may drop by $2 billion or more in 2025 due to the costs associated with new vehicle launches and declining car prices.

During the earnings call, CEO Jim Farley addressed concerns about potential tariffs threatened by President Donald Trump on imports from Mexico and Canada.
Farley stated that while a few weeks of tariffs would be “manageable,” prolonged tariffs would have a “huge impact” on the industry, potentially wiping out billions of dollars in profits and adversely affecting U.S. jobs and the entire value system in the automotive sector.
He also warned of higher prices for consumers if the tariffs remain in place.

Compared to its rivals in the EV market, Ford appears to be lagging behind.
While General Motors released several new electric models last year, including Chevy and Cadillac vehicles, Ford currently offers only three battery-electric vehicles for sale. Moreover, GM’s EV business is showing signs of profitability, while Ford’s continues to struggle.

To address these challenges, Ford plans to introduce a range of powertrains, including battery-electric, plug-in hybrid, and extended-range EVs that use small gas engines to recharge the battery, offering up to 700 miles of range.

Farley has been a huge proponent of EVs, bragging about how much money Ford could save by switching to electric vehicles:

“So I believe there will be, our industry is definitely heading to a huge price war,” said Farley. He noted that the Mustang Mach-E currently starts at around $45,000, but the battery pack alone costs Ford $18,000 to build, a production price that he hopes to lower in coming years.
 
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