Back lights

[Choosing a name is hard]

Yes indicators are orange turn signals that are in the back lights
It only affects the back lights both sides . Front lights work perfectly
I will now look at multi leaver stalk

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

Ok striped the light stalk it all looks very clean
I rubbed the contacts very lightly wit 800 grit paper and sprayed everything in contact cleaner
After a bit of messing around getting the two half’s lined up corectly everything is still the same . It all works perfectly front and back untill I turn off the lights then the back lights
Brake and indicator ( yellow turn signal both light up .
Not sure if this helps but when the stalk was disconnected the lights did not come on ( the faulty ones obviously )

 

[teamzr1]

Try to narrow this down with ign key not in and doors closed, may take 10 minutes for controllers to go to sleep mode
doing each one, test and then try another of fuse panel under the floor by BCM
Under its cover is a map of all

Something is backfeeding

1. pull fuse 8
2. pull fuse 15
3. pull fuse 21
4. Relays, one at a time for DRL and turn signals
5 could also swap positions of both and test

6. turn on the emergency switch, see if any changes
7. Via DIC make changes to passive and auto light functions

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

Thanks I will try this Saturday morning
Dic not/ never worked

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

Ok so due to cold and snow it’s taken me a bit longer to investigate but here we go
Removed fuses 8,15,21 when 8 was pulled no hazard lights apart from that everything the same . When lights off all break lights on and tight turn signal ( but not flashing )
I cannot remove relays 38 and 40 as they are missing ( pic attached). The car has been like that since I bought it ..I did swap the wires for the rear turn signals over ( left for right and right for left ) and the problem switched sides ( I could only do this as the wires were repaired where they melted and had spade connectors on ) so it seems the back bit is all ok and the problem must be further up the wiring loom
Pete

 

[teamzr1]

Ok so due to cold and snow it’s taken me a bit longer to investigate but here we go
Removed fuses 8,15,21 when 8 was pulled no hazard lights apart from that everything the same . When lights off all break lights on and tight turn signal ( but not flashing )
I cannot remove relays 38 and 40 as they are missing ( pic attached). The car has been like that since I bought it ..I did swap the wires for the rear turn signals over ( left for right and right for left ) and the problem switched sides ( I could only do this as the wires were repaired where they melted and had spade connectors on ) so it seems the back bit is all ok and the problem must be further up the wiring loom
Pete

Pete
I glued this together to make it easier to follow

Fuse 3 in lower left is not there, if having lumber of seats why fuse taken out ?

Relays 38 and 40 are for daylight running lights, is that a Euro thing, that they do not have them ?
But if so, why was the relay bypassed and voltage jumpered so 12 volts directly to the lighting ?

If you just moved the turnsignal/stoplight wiring loom, swapped left/right and the problem also moved
does that not say the problem is with was for the loom of right side ?

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

Well spotted sir
The fuse was removed as if I left the car overnight it would flatten the battery .once fuse removed it would last at least a couple of weeks
Daylight running is not a thing over here
when I swapped the wires over the fault moved from left to right ,all the brake lights remained on . I thought that meant the right turn signal was getting a power feed from the cable .
Fuse 8 looks like it has had some heat at some time ( hard to see in the photo )
Is it possible to pull the fuse box out to have a look at the rear ?

 

[teamzr1]

Still questions if no DRL required why someone inserted jumpers to supply voltage all the time and to what
Fact saying swapping the loom for those lights that problems moves with it, I would take the
bad loom and using an OHM meter is ring out each wire end to end and also from 1 wire to others looks for
breaks or short
If need be if not wanting to buy the loom is using the old ones connectors is makeup a new set

Issues with seats need to be looked at as with fuse 3 pulled how that affects the door controllers or BCM
issues with no DIC should look first at fuses 19 and 25
If not there than need to get to the IPC dash and check wiring from it to the DIC or is simply
the lights for DIC the issue

If I recall correctly, there is like tabs on the sides of the fuse panel that allows the top half coming loose enough to flip
it over and closely look for high current load temp burns or broken wiring pins

 

[C5Steve]

On your comment about the DRL's @teamzr1 , mine are exactly the same as in the pic (US spec car converted to run in the UK). I didn't realise there was supposed to be a relay in there but it does have the same little jumper wire. Never really thought about why though, assume there must be a reason.

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

Sorry for being thick
If I get my tester and find a good earth
Should any of the wires in the harness at the back end plug have power if the ignition is off and so are the lights ect ?

 

[teamzr1]

On your comment about the DRL's @teamzr1 , mine are exactly the same as in the pic (US spec car converted to run in the UK). I didn't realise there was supposed to be a relay in there but it does have the same little jumper wire. Never really thought about why though, assume there must be a reason.

Reason is all the lighting bound by the 2 DRL relays
These are used for

1. Approach, which is the function of like when using the FOB and either pushing a button unlocks the doors and lights come on
or via the DIC is setting options to auto turn lights on when FOB is close to the car or when using the key to unlock the doors

2. Emergency flashers, when that button is turned on to flash the lights

Because of that both DRL relays are using battery voltage via fuse #2 which is in the fuse panel and is always ON

I do not know why EURO is against approach functions, so that 12 volts from fuse 2 which also controls the coil of DRL relay
is jumpered so that the coil is bypassed and all lighting via contacts of both relays have voltage for lighting and why the jumper exists

 

[teamzr1]

Pete ( forgot Euro cars do not have those 2 relays )

1. For a test, pull fuse 2 in the engine bay panel and see how that affects the right rear lights

Really need to solve why DIC does not light up because if it was functional could go into options,
turn approach OFF and also turn off auto FOB sensing
Refer to owner's manual in DIC options to see which ones would cause the BCM to command security and lights auto on

2. If need be, testing the emergency hazard function by pulling the fuses for that

 

[C5Steve]

Reason is all the lighting bound by the 2 DRL relays
These are used for

1. Approach, which is the function of like when using the FOB and either pushing a button unlocks the doors and lights come on
or via the DIC is setting options to auto turn lights on when FOB is close to the car or when using the key to unlock the doors

2. Emergency flashers, when that button is turned on to flash the lights

Because of that both DRL relays are using battery voltage via fuse #2 which is in the fuse panel and is always ON

I do not know why EURO is against approach functions, so that 12 volts from fuse 2 which also controls the coil of DRL relay
is jumpered so that the coil is bypassed and all lighting via contacts of both relays have voltage for lighting and why the jumper exists

Hmmm, well I still have all those functions without the relays for the DRLs so perhaps that's why they're jumpered? In the UK we can't have amber running lights so I assume why the relays are removed. On UK cars we need white "sidelights" that come on with the first click of the light switch, they tend to be converted by installing the small clip-on lights that sit just outside the fog lights in the bumper gap which are then used for the "sidelights".

On that basis, I guess I could convert back by installing DRLs with a white DRL and amber flasher along with the original relays. Not sure such a thing was possible back when they were first imported as I believe the amber lights were dual filament so you'd always need a separate white bulb somewhere.

 

[teamzr1]

Sorry for being thick
If I get my tester and find a good earth
Should any of the wires in the harness at the back end plug have power if the ignition is off and so are the lights ect ?

Yes, read my 2 new posts

But to make it simple
Depending on how the DIC options are set for approach and security, the BCM also controls when lights are on or off

I still think Pete needs to take that wire loom for the right side and debug it with an OHM meter

 

[teamzr1]

Hmmm, well I still have all those functions without the relays for the DRLs so perhaps that's why they're jumpered? In the UK we can't have amber running lights so I assume why the relays are removed. On UK cars we need white "sidelights" that come on with the first click of the light switch, they tend to be converted by installing the small clip-on lights that sit just outside the fog lights in the bumper gap which are then used for the "sidelights".

On that basis, I guess I could convert back by installing DRLs with a white DRL and amber flasher along with the original relays. Not sure such a thing was possible back when they were first imported as I believe the amber lights were dual filament so you'd always need a separate white bulb somewhere.

Fuse 2 not only supplied voltage to coil of relays but also is the voltage for the lights so jumper is allowing voltage from fuse 2
directly to lights

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

Ok pulled fuse 2 in engine fuse box and no different
I pulled fuse 8 in the foot well and tested the power there
On the top pin I got 12 v on the bottom pin with the lights turned off I got 8 v and with the lights turned on it was 0 v
Pic to show people what the back of the fuse box looks like

 

[teamzr1]

Hazard has 2 circuits hot all the time, 8 you checked but also 15
Where those 2 jumpers replacing the DRL relays, is there voltage on both when ign key is off ?

On the bottom of that fuse panel where those covers are, do those cone off to better see the wiring there ?
I forget, but did you pull the jumpers off 1 at a time that replace the DRL relays and test ?

With key off, if turning the turn signal level right/left, any difference ?

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

I will try those tests next
I tested the plug where the rear harness goes I will try to explane what I found in pictures

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

I also put fuse back in 8 in footwell but something has Definitely happened there ( heat ) as the fuse is hard to get back in
Is there a way to split the fuse box as you can’t see the back of where the fuse sits in . The wires at the back of the fuse box are very fine so I guess they work a relay ? The wires in the loom ar a lot thicker . Having power both sides also surprised me as I thought it would only be on one side

 

[teamzr1]

I would think those trays on bottom side pop off some way to closely look at each wire and pin connector

Also, could be those 3 large bolts if taken out than allow the top turn over ?