Let's talk brakes 🙈

[Krusty]

Looking to get a better feel from my brakes on my 2001 C5 Targa.
When I first bought the car almost a year ago, the stopping power was shockingly bad! 1 hard brake from high'ish speed, boilt the fluid instantly
My own fault really... I purchased the car from Japan (Genuine GM Japan model) with only 62k miles, so I assume the fluid has never been changed in its life
Anyway, I rebled the entire system with DOT5.1, cleaned up each individual brake caliper and from what I can tell are stock pads all round, I greased pivots/sliders where necessary and so on. It has a perfect set of drilled and vented discs fitted also.
It all brakes fantastic now, I'm very happy with the brakes on it
I have no issues other than the actual pedal feel itself... it feels kind of vague compared to what I'm use to in my other vehicles and it gives me a false sense of security.
The brake booster works fine with no leaks also.
So I was wondering what any of you other good folks here have done to get a 'firmer', 'sharper' feel in the pedal?
I've been looking in to a set of HEL or Goodridge stainless brake lines (which probably isn't a bad upgrade anyway considering the age of the original rubber flexi pipes). Has anyone got these fitted? and did it make a noticeable difference?
Also brake pad options? I've read a lot about upgrading the pads to various brands and types of pad, but on the other hand I've heard a lot of praise from just keeping the stock pads and having great results also.
I don't drive my car like a lunatic! but I do enjoy the spirited B road and fast A road blast (in the right time and place) with occasional heavy braking for roundabouts and so on... but I have absolutely no confidence in the feel of the brake pedal itself, even though it all does its job well at stopping.
Any helpful advice from people who have fitted stainless brake lines and maybe tried different brake pads are most welcome to give me opinions.
I'm taking the car to the Nurburgring with a group of friends at the end of June and I just know what's going to happen, even though I've said I'm not driving like an idiot you still have to give your car a punt with your mates now and then
So with over 3 months until that trip starts, I'd like to have a more confident feeling brake pedal

Pic of my car for attention

p.s. before anyone asks... YES! the brakes are properly bled through

 

[Oneball]

I’d change the flexis first. Especially on something of that age, I find it makes a huge difference.

 

[Blackzed]

I had the stainless braided ones fitted to my C5 coupe many years ago.
There were many reports of ABS faults associated with this change.
I fitted the Goodrich ones that worked very well and didn't throw any codes or problems.
Don't cheap out on them, go for the Goodrich ones or similar quality ones.

 

[Krusty]

I had the stainless braided ones fitted to my C5 coupe many years ago.
There were many reports of ABS faults associated with this change.
I fitted the Goodrich ones that worked very well and didn't throw any codes or problems.
Don't cheap out on them, go for the Goodrich ones or similar quality ones.

Interesting
I honestly don't see how they can cause ABS faults? As stainless lines are used to reduce the swelling commonly found in the rubber flexi's under heavy braking.
Sounds more like an issue somewhere with the ABS itself rather than the lines!
I do trust HEL a lot over Goodridge personally (being a motorcycle mechanic, I do believe HEL to be a much better quality product and longer lasting than Goodridge, plus a lifetime warranty as standard).
I'm also an authorised maker of HEL lines for motorcycles so I really do trust them second to none
But your input is still appreciated and I would love to know more about what the ABS faults are and how people linked the faults to the lines?

 

[theseoldcars]

Agreed. I think that it's probably a problem caused by something else, possibly disturbing things during the changeover; I've fitted plenty of these to cars and never encountered such an issue, and slung a set on my C5 last year and, again, zero problems.

I did some quick research beforehand, having seen a few cautionary tales, and eventually ended up tripping over a thread where even a GM engineer involved in the braking and stability systems side of things was recommending them as an upgrade. And companies have sold thousands of sets with few, if any at all, problems – so I think it's not something to worry about.

Alas, I didn't get to drive my C5 much before changing the lines, but, even if I had, I'd probably find the change not that significant based on past experience. I suspect what many are actually noticing is an improved feel resulting from fresh fluid and the bleeding process. But I was refreshing everything, so it made sense to get it done at the time.

I'd probably start by slinging a set of Hawk/Powerstop/Carbotech pads in (pick one that best suits your usage) the front and rear, and go from there. But the lines are comparatively inexpensive, so it's something you could do at the same time just to give it the best fighting chance.

Othewise, it might be time to look at different front calipers and larger discs.

 

[Krusty]

I would agree in that I think that's a problem caused by something else, possibly disturbing things during the changeover; I've fitted plenty of these to cars and never encountered such an issue, and slung a set on my C5 last year and, again, zero problems.

I did some quick research beforehand, having seen a few cautionary tales, and eventually ended up tripping over a thread where even a GM engineer involved in the braking and stability systems side of things was recommending them as an upgrade. And companies have sold thousands of sets with few, if any at all, problems – so I think it's not something to worry about.

I will say that the improvement, in my C5's case, was not significant. I suspect what most are actually noticing are improved feel resulting from fresh fluid and the bleeding process. But I was refreshing everything, so it made sense to get it done at the time. I'd probably start by slinging a set of Hawk/Powerstop/Carbotech pads in (pick one that best suits your usage) the front and rear, and go from there.

Othewise, it might be time to look at different front calipers and larger discs.

Good input, thanks.

I have looked in to bigger brakes and even the Wilwood caliper upgrades.
Honestly, I have no issues or complaints with the braking for the amount I drive the car! I'm happy with its stopping power and have no issues there.
Since changing my fluid to DOT 5.1, cleaning all my brakes including brake pads, sliders and regreasing components where necessary, I have no issues with how well the brakes work either
My only problem is the actual 'feel' I get through the pedal itself. Again, it just feels vague to me and offers no real 'feel' through the pedal which results in me feeling kind of like I've lost brake pressure for a split second just because of the pedal travel and no feeling.
Maybe it's all in my head after boiling my fluid last year?
At the same time, I'm comparing the braking feel compared to all my other vehicles (Lexus SC430, Subaru Impreza WRX, Subaru Impreza STI, Honda Civic Type R and even my Nissan Elgrand!) which all feel so much sharper through the pedal. Then when I get the Corvette out and first brake, I always worry for that split second that I have no brakes haha just by the feel through the pedal even though the car stops fine.
Again, they do work! I just hate the feel through the pedal and would really like to find a cure for a firmer result.
I'll change the brake lines anyway for good measure. At the end of the day, those rubber flexi pipes are now 22 years old! changing them won't hurt
Then I'll look in to pad options if I'm still not happy

 

[Oneball]

“Then when I get the Corvette out and first brake, I always worry for that split second that I have no brakes.”

If you dab the brakes, release, then reapply, does the pedal feel better? You could have some bounce back in the pads due to disc run out.

 

[Krusty]

“Then when I get the Corvette out and first brake, I always worry for that split second that I have no brakes.”

If you dab the brakes, release, then reapply, does the pedal feel better? You could have some bounce back in the pads due to disc run out.

No, no problems with the brakes at all. It's hard to explain when writing. It's like when selling a vehicle and describing a small paint scratch, it always sounds like you're selling a write off
I'm just trying to explain it as best I can.
I drive 5 other vehicles daily and have 4 motorcycles also. They all have a much better braking 'feel' than my Corvette. Saying that, the Corvette does brake absolutely fine!
When I quoted what you have pointed out above, I was trying to say that after driving all my other vehicles and then getting in the 'vette, the feel in the pedal is so different and it always tends to catch me out for that split second when I first go to stop or slow down then obviously I'm use to it for the rest of the day
I just want to get a firmer feel from my pedal. The car starts, drives and stops absolutely fine. The brake booster works fine also with no leaks etc.
Again, I just want to get more 'feel' through the pedal if possible... if it can't be achieved, then it is what it is! but it would be nice to have it how I would like it
It's no biggy, just after some suggestions with swapping the rubber flexi's for stainless and anything else people have tried and tested

 

[Oneball]

Thought it was probably that but just thought I’d check.

I had a 2001 Maserati with 25k miles on it a couple of years ago and changing the lines did make quite a difference. I reckon after 20 years the standard rubber hoses were expanding under pressure.

 

[Krusty]

Thought it was probably that but just thought I’d check.

I had a 2001 Maserati with 25k miles on it a couple of years ago and changing the lines did make quite a difference. I reckon after 20 years the standard rubber hoses were expanding under pressure.

Got to be worth it even if it doesn't improve the braking to how I would like it.
Like you say, they're old rubber components now and they're directly in firing line of weathering also.
I've just purchased a set... just need to weather to play ball now so I can fit them

 

[teamzr1]

Question is the use of DOT 5.1 fluid

The C5 brake system was designed to use DOT-3
As the owner manual states :

Checking Brake Fluid
You can check the brake fluid without taking off the cap.
Just look at the brake fluid reservoir. The fluid level should be above the MIN mark on the reservoir. If it
isn’t, have your brake system checked to see if there is a leak.
After work is done on the brake hydraulic system, make sure the level is between the MIN and MAX marks.

What to Add
When you do need brake fluid, use only DOT-3 brake fluid. Use new brake fluid from a sealed container only.
Refer to “Recommended Fluids and Lubricants” in the Maintenance Schedule.
Always clean the brake fluid reservoir cap and the area around the cap before removing it.
This will help keep dirt from entering the reservoir.

Of course there would be a question if system is mixed with DOT-3 and 5.1 how that affects braking

As to replacing the flex hose
There is an issue and that is each wheel position has a speed sensor, and it relies on a good ground
It has been proven that certain so-called metal lines replacing the flex hose do not connect well with the
connectors they fit into and lose ground to those sensors
IF replacing to metal types, assure there is a good ground to the hubs and frame ground

Keep in mind those sensors which connect to the EBTCM if those sensors are effected by weak ground
will cause the ABS to react oddly

BTW my 99 C5, older than yours, still has the original flex lines and do not swell
so if not broke, I would not replace them or again if replacing, test for loss of ground with the lines you selected to use

 

[Krusty]

Question is the use of DOT 5.1 fluid

The C5 brake system was designed to use DOT-3
As the owner manual states :

Checking Brake Fluid
You can check the brake fluid without taking off the cap.
Just look at the brake fluid reservoir. The fluid level should be above the MIN mark on the reservoir. If it
isn’t, have your brake system checked to see if there is a leak.
After work is done on the brake hydraulic system, make sure the level is between the MIN and MAX marks.

What to Add
When you do need brake fluid, use only DOT-3 brake fluid. Use new brake fluid from a sealed container only.
Refer to “Recommended Fluids and Lubricants” in the Maintenance Schedule.
Always clean the brake fluid reservoir cap and the area around the cap before removing it.
This will help keep dirt from entering the reservoir.

Of course there would be a question if system is mixed with DOT-3 and 5.1 how that affects braking

As to replacing the flex hose
There is an issue and that is each wheel position has a speed sensor, and it relies on a good ground
It has been proven that certain so-called metal lines replacing the flex hose do not connect well with the
connectors they fit into and lose ground to those sensors
IF replacing to metal types, assure there is a good ground to the hubs and frame ground

Keep in mind those sensors which connect to the EBTCM if those sensors are effected by weak ground
will cause the ABS to react oddly

BTW my 99 C5, older than yours, still has the original flex lines and do not swell
so if not broke, I would not replace them or again if replacing, test for loss of ground with the lines you selected to use

DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 are all interchangeable and can be mixed.
5.1 is a higher boiling point of 3 and 4.
It's not worth debating over and the braking difference is so much better compared to the old fluid that was in it anyway.
Going from 5.1 back to 3 or even 4 will not benefit in any way... in any scenario, it will be going backwards.
Even PartsUSA confirmed the use of 5.1 for an upgraded fluid when I had work done by them last October and they had to rebleed my brakes (after I'd already done 5.1 myself).

I don't see how changing the rubber flexi pipes can cause issues with the speed sensor? The ground can't be affected in any way because it's rubber... it doesn't lead to anything so makes no sense how a ground can be affected by changing it!
Fitting a stainless line will be no different other than IF it did somehow run a ground through the stainless alternative (99% unlikely), then you've technically ADDED a ground as it leads directly to a bracket to the chassis anyway, which makes is better again. So I'm really struggling to understand this?

I do believe old rubber flexi pipes should be replaced. rubber does deteriorate even if it looks fine.
It's like saying motorcycle tyres that have plenty of tread on are fine even if they've been on a bike for 5 years... don't chance it! get them changed as the rubber deteriorates. I see it all the time with bikes (being in the bike trade) and people complaining with handling issues etc, because they have old tyres that have been on the bikes for years and barely done any miles.
OK, so we're talking about brake hoses... not tyres But the same still applies. 20 years for rubber brake pipes is more than long enough to call it in my opinion.
They're still a rubber component open to the elements and difference in temp changes. They will degrade to a degree over time and for the very little cost, it's not worth grumbling over... it's worth doing
Even if to just tick it off the maintenance list

 

[Krusty]

I don't know if we're all heading off topic here or looking in to things that aren't issues
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY BRAKES!!!!!!!!!
They work absolutely fine
I just want to know how I can get a better feel through the pedal? Is it possible? Has anyone actually achieved it? or am I p*ss*ng in the wind as they say?
Yes, I have rebled my brakes with 5.1 fluid... that is not an issue. It works and it's a proven fluid over DOT 3 and 4. It's my personal preference. I never use DOT 3 or 4 in anything any more! I have always 5.1 and have done for absolutely years with brilliant results.
Yes, I have removed and cleaned my brake calipers and pads, I have greased necessary components and reassembled it all. No issues what so ever there.
My brakes work fine and they're very strong!
My only question is that I don't like the feel of the pedal (or lack of), that is all... I want to 'feel' more of what's going on if possible? not just what feels like (to me) an overly soft pedal fitted to a strong braking system. I'd like to feel the pedal become firmer as the brakes are working stronger. All my other cars feel like this and I'd like the Corvette to feel the same or better than it currently is at least, but if it can't... so be it, it is how it is

I'll fit the stainless brake lines when they arrive (and it isn't raining... for once) and see how we get on. It might work, but then it might not... either way, 22 year old flex pipes being renewed for an upgrade isn't going to hurt the car in any way, it is an upgrade regardless and it's something that won't need touching for another 20 years minimum

 

[teamzr1]

Just take a minute and use an OHM meter to assure the braided lines you installed that a good ground exists to the hubs near the speed sensors

When the fluid was changed, was a OBD-II or Tech-II used and commanded each wheel's ABS solenoid to flush out the ABS unit and pump ?

 

[Krusty]

When the fluid was changed, was a OBD-II or Tech-II used and commanded each wheel's ABS solenoid to flush out the ABS unit and pump ?

I don't understand what you're getting at here?
It makes no difference... I bled the entire system by the old skool technique of having a friend pump the brakes whilst I bled them at each wheel until the quite noticeably fresh fluid came through. I do not, have not and never will use brake bleeding kits as I find them subpar compared to doing it properly by the old technique. They may be quicker and perfect for people who are working alone, but not for me.
On top of that, PartsUSA bled DOT 5.1 again after the work I had done there. Same method I used also (1 pumping the pedal and 1 bleeding each caliper).
Also, again DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 are compatible with each other regardless of adding a top up or rebleeding an entire system. You can mix 3, 4 and 5.1 no problem... but yes, in answer to your question it has been flushed through
You're being very specific about a very easily maintainable 22 year old car here... it's not like I am working on a Bugatti Chiron! Although the car is very sophisticated for its time, it really isn't a sophisticated car by today's standards.
Again and I apologise but this is irrelevant and off topic for my question regarding the brake feel THAT I'M AFTER through the pedal.
The brakes work fine, the ABS works fine, the pedal works fine... I just want a firmer feeling pedal.
The pedal feels no different from before I bled the 5.1 through it, compared to now. It's just now that I have fresh fluid, it hasn't boiled old fluid like it did before.
I am only assuming the brake fluid wasn't changed since new due to the low mileage the car has covered, it is an easy oversight by a lot of vehicle owners. Being a motorcycle mechanic, again I have experience in this because people mostly use motorcycles occasionally rather than daily and they forget such service items such as brake fluid and front fork oil... I can't be certain it's NEVER been done! I am just assuming this. Don't forget that the car is from Japan from new, so if it has indeed been done at some point, it more than likely used DOT 5.1 anyway as they use it as standard instead of 3 & 4. So this makes the question irrelevant again if I've bled old 5.1 through for new 5.1

I will take your advice on checking with my multimeter after fitting brake lines but I will be VERY VERY surprised if I get ANY issue from braided lines on this quarter of a century old Corvette! I have fitted brake lines to vehicles that are a million times more sophisticated than this car and never had OR HEARD of such an issue!
If this was a known thing, it would be well known through a lot of vehicles across the whole motor industry and surely braided lines would not be a thing to purchase at all by now.

 

[Invetterate]

I don't know if we're all heading off topic here or looking in to things that aren't issues
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY BRAKES!!!!!!!!!
They work absolutely fine
I just want to know how I can get a better feel through the pedal? Is it possible? Has anyone actually achieved it? or am I p*ss*ng in the wind as they say?
Yes, I have rebled my brakes with 5.1 fluid... that is not an issue. It works and it's a proven fluid over DOT 3 and 4. It's my personal preference. I never use DOT 3 or 4 in anything any more! I have always 5.1 and have done for absolutely years with brilliant results.
Yes, I have removed and cleaned my brake calipers and pads, I have greased necessary components and reassembled it all. No issues what so ever there.
My brakes work fine and they're very strong!
My only question is that I don't like the feel of the pedal (or lack of), that is all... I want to 'feel' more of what's going on if possible? not just what feels like (to me) an overly soft pedal fitted to a strong braking system. I'd like to feel the pedal become firmer as the brakes are working stronger. All my other cars feel like this and I'd like the Corvette to feel the same or better than it currently is at least, but if it can't... so be it, it is how it is

I'll fit the stainless brake lines when they arrive (and it isn't raining... for once) and see how we get on. It might work, but then it might not... either way, 22 year old flex pipes being renewed for an upgrade isn't going to hurt the car in any way, it is an upgrade regardless and it's something that won't need touching for another 20 years minimum

The pedal feel on mine is not how I would ideally like it, but over the 20 years I have had it, I have got used to it! The top of the pedal range seems to achieve very little and you have probably found this, which might account for some lack of confidence. You have to really give them a shove and then they work well in my experience. Having said that, I have changed to braided hoses and DOT 5 [following a long pedal at a sprint!]. I have also fitted EBC slotted and dimpled discs and have been working my way up through the EBC pad range. Currently on Yellow Stuff. I have found these changes well worth while, the pads giving good bite especially after hard use.

The top of the pedal is still vague but after that I get good feel and they really haul the car down. Worth considering when you change pads or sooner if you want some improvement. I have just invested in EBC Blue Stuff which is the highest grade of pad ex full race [which would not actually be road legal anyway] and these will be fitted when the weather gets better. These need a full round of heat cycles through them to get the maximum out of them as they are both a road and a track pad. All this depends on how hard you use the car, of course. Overall, I want the maximum braking I can get for all situations and hence the changes. I am considering a big brake kit, but these are costly and probably a step too far for me at the moment.

Is your car an auto like mine? If so [and it might seem odd] but I have taught myself to left foot brake which saves time especially if you are going through a series of corners. I am on the brakes immediately without having to move my foot over from the accelerator. Somehow, this feels better all round and I am sticking with it. Anyway - just a thought! Having said all this, you might have to resign yourself to less feel than you would prefer. Happy motoring, anyway!

 

[Roscobbc]

Can't really help with C5 specific brake issues but can comment on replacement on my C3 of the stock rubber flexi's over to Goodridge stainless braided. I did this some 20 years ago (as the discs were in perfect condition I retained them) after fully re-building the stock calipers I installed a set of Hawk HP Plus pads in all round. Still have the same pads - they work well, are quite progressive in term of 'feel' and application once a they get a bit of heat in them.......but, but, but I do not have power assistance. So yes, there is 'feel', plenty of 'feel', perhaps too much 'feel' as when braking hard with the cars power levels it really needs a far higher level of pressure perhaps than one might expect............there is a sense of 'balance' without power assistance, effectively matching the weight of the steering and manual transmission. Wondering whether there is a 'tweak' to modify the level or linearity of vacuum assistance on your car?

 

[Krusty]

The pedal feel on mine is not how I would ideally like it, but over the 20 years I have had it, I have got used to it! The top of the pedal range seems to achieve very little and you have probably found this, which might account for some lack of confidence. You have to really give them a shove and then they work well in my experience. Having said that, I have changed to braided hoses and DOT 5 [following a long pedal at a sprint!]. I have also fitted EBC slotted and dimpled discs and have been working my way up through the EBC pad range. Currently on Yellow Stuff. I have found these changes well worth while, the pads giving good bite especially after hard use.

The top of the pedal is still vague but after that I get good feel and they really haul the car down. Worth considering when you change pads or sooner if you want some improvement. I have just invested in EBC Blue Stuff which is the highest grade of pad ex full race [which would not actually be road legal anyway] and these will be fitted when the weather gets better. These need a full round of heat cycles through them to get the maximum out of them as they are both a road and a track pad. All this depends on how hard you use the car, of course. Overall, I want the maximum braking I can get for all situations and hence the changes. I am considering a big brake kit, but these are costly and probably a step too far for me at the moment.

Is your car an auto like mine? If so [and it might seem odd] but I have taught myself to left foot brake which saves time especially if you are going through a series of corners. I am on the brakes immediately without having to move my foot over from the accelerator. Somehow, this feels better all round and I am sticking with it. Anyway - just a thought! Having said all this, you might have to resign yourself to less feel than you would prefer. Happy motoring, anyway!

This is good
Yes it is an auto
How do you find the yellow stuff for road use? Do they produce a lot of brake dust? Squeak? I know some pads can be a nightmare for this.
My friend is suffering with squeak from green stuff on his little MX-5 and we just can't get it to stop!
I do left foot brake occasionally, but don't make a habit of it.
I get exactly like you describe! Like nothing happens so you press the pedal more and then it brakes really well although the pedal feels like it has little pressure in it still, but the braking power is fantastic... I am comparing it to all my other cars which have very instantaneous braking and a firm feel despite all being servo assisted.
Maybe it is something I need to live with... but for now, braided lines must make some sort of a difference.
I will try pad changes afterwards if I'm still not satisfied, but I'd like to hear more about pads before I decide to go down that route

 

[Invetterate]

This is good
Yes it is an auto
How do you find the yellow stuff for road use? Do they produce a lot of brake dust? Squeak? I know some pads can be a nightmare for this.
My friend is suffering with squeak from green stuff on his little MX-5 and we just can't get it to stop!
I do left foot brake occasionally, but don't make a habit of it.
I get exactly like you describe! Like nothing happens so you press the pedal more and it brakes really well although the pedal feels like it has little pressure in it... but I am comparing it to all my other cars which have very instantaneous braking and a firm feel.
Maybe it is something I need to live with... but for now, braided lines must make a difference.
I will try pad changes afterwards if I'm still not satisfied, but I'd like to gear more about pads before I do

I find the Yellow Stuff really good tbh. EBC reformulated them after criticism and they work well for the road. I have found no lack of bite from cold at all e.g. when coming off a motorway after a long run. I went from ordinary pads to Green Stuff which seemed fine, but EBC recommended Red Stuff so I switched. Then moved up to Yellow. I also have a friend with an MX5 which we have tracked a lot and the Yellow is really good - no squeak on his or mine! I think dust is much the same as any other pad. I don't much like dirty wheels either but I suppose it is a function of braking! I had the Yellow on the C5 for a day at Snetterton and they stood up very well even when taking 90 -100mph or so off at the end of the Bentley Straight. It wasn't their fault that I left the braking a little late and slid the front wheels slightly off the circuit at one point! Lesson learned! No fade at all though. Well worth considering, I would say but you are spot-on with the hoses - got to be the best starting point.

 

[Krusty]

Can't really help with C5 specific brake issues but can comment on replacement on my C3 of the stock rubber flexi's over to Goodridge stainless braided. I did this some 20 years ago (as the discs were in perfect condition I retained them) after fully re-building the stock calipers I installed a set of Hawk HP Plus pads in all round. Still have the same pads - they work well, are quite progressive in term of 'feel' and application once a they get a bit of heat in them.......but, but, but I do not have power assistance. So yes, there is 'feel', plenty of 'feel', perhaps too much 'feel' as when braking hard with the cars power levels it really needs a far higher level of pressure perhaps than one might expect............there is a sense of 'balance' without power assistance, effectively matching the weight of the steering and manual transmission. Wondering whether there is a 'tweak' to modify the level or linearity of vacuum assistance on your car?

This is a good point made
Obviously with it being servo assisted, it helps with the braking of the car instead of as you have to do, stamp on it and feel everything!
My initial joke saying the brake booster must be huge on this car! Because I get very little feel through the pedal even though I'm braking HARD!!!
I wonder if a modification has ever been done to numb the systen a little and allow the brakes to be felt more by the driver???

One step at a time though, braided lines are a must for me now that I've ordered them
Then possibly look in to pads.
Then live with it more than likely if I'm still unsatisfied