Are we still convinced that electric vehicles are the best way forward?

[Yellowshark]

Some good points there Roscobbc, I think we are pretty much on the same page. The problem is though trying to predict the future is a thankless task. The purchase of the MINI was an specific choice given circumstances but a normal choice is a change of the family car which is maybe imminent. I am strongly toying with the idea of changing my wife's 2 litre BMW. Getting on now and if no other eason than due to spiralling fuel costs would be good to swap to something cheaper to to run. So do I buy electric now? Nope. Do I run the BMW for another 5 years and then maybe with a clearer understanding of the future make a decision? Uncertain, I find the pull of new petrol car with better consumption and more reliability due to newness to be strong. Do I buy a new petrol car now? I think so. Funnily enough have this brief conversation is helping me focus on this almost intractable subject that I am sure many people are going through. Two things I am certain of - 1. will the entire UK driving popu[ation be able to shell out £25k+ by 2030? No. 2. Will there be plenty of petrol cars on the road by 2030? Due to 1, then yes. Unless of course the Government gets serious and spends something of Furloughing proportions to compensate all non E drivers so they can write off their cars and buy an E car

 

[Roscobbc]

Complicated choices. I wonder whether HMG will move Euro compliancy figures for existing vehicles relating to emission/ULEZ/congestion charges. There are increasingly fewer petrol vehicles that are NOT compliant - being as most petrol vehicles built after 2005 are compliant......remembering that they could be (like my own daily) 17/18 years old. Diesels are the issue needing to be 2015 manufactured or later.......so no cheap compliant runarounds there!
Perhaps not an issue (one might think) if you life in the provinces.......but with larger UK cities copying London.....perhaps a matter of time.
The Tesla Model S owners have the best deal........free Supercharging for life of vehicle.........have you seen the used prices of Model S's?
I'm concerned about HMG moving 'goalposts' relating to compliancy and vehicles perhaps costing 10's of thousands of pounds falling foul of moving emission targets.

 

[teamzr1]

It’s no stretch to say that the USA's limited network of charging stations probably discourages many prospective buyers.
The USA will need to install 500 EV charging units EVERY DAY for the next eight years at a cost of $43B to meet demand for 1.2M public ports by 2030
And that's not counting the 48M needed in homes

In response, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL) provides $7.5 billion to develop the country’s EV-charging infrastructure.
The goal is to install 500,000 public chargers publicly accessible charging stations compatible with all vehicles and technologies nationwide by 2030.
However, even the addition of half a million public chargers could be far from enough.
In a scenario in which half of all vehicles sold are zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs) by 2030 in line with federal targets we estimate that America would require 1.2 million public EV chargers and
28 million private EV chargers by that year. All told, the country would need almost 20 times more chargers than it has now.

Merely setting up more charging stations isn’t all that matters.
The BIL highlights equity, to name one specific priority. Electricity purchased at a public charger can cost five to ten times more than electricity at a private one.
To keep EVs powered up, public charging stations will probably need to be economical, equitably distributed, appealing to use, and wired to a robust power grid.
They will also probably have to present a viable business opportunity for the companies expected to install and operate them.
States and businesses could better fulfill America’s need for public charging by taking such considerations into account in their planning efforts.

In a scenario in which the nation reaches the federal ZEV sales target, we estimate that the country’s fleet of EVs would grow from less than three million today to more than 48 million in 2030
about 15 percent of all vehicles on the road in the United States.
Passenger cars alone could number more than 44 million; the rest of the EV fleet would consist of buses, light commercial vehicles, and trucks

So in the UK, cannot be any different from over here but how will you do that when now in the UK

Brits Winter Heat

 

[Roscobbc]

The real problem Jon for us here in the UK is both the political structure and the commercial structure that are largely dominated by the 'old boy' network. You have the same thing in the USA - People who have the 'connections', the money, the influence, the ability to effectively 'blackmail' or buy their childrens education and future path into commerce. Not for them going up through the ranks and learning the ropes - just like with the military if you have the right family, go to the correct public school the 'old boy network' looks after them. And they won't be able to do a thing wrong in life.......they can make big mistakes, cost people millions of dollars or pounds and these people don't get hung out to dry.........no, they actually get better jobs after things have quietened down. Its these people who will do every thing they can to hold back the ordinary working man from earning a decent living. Its these people who 'feather their own nests' at the cost of our countries future prosperity. Its these people who sell off our manufacturing companies, electrical generating stations, gas producing and water companies to Chinese, French, German, Spanish, anyone in fact who will slip a huge 'consultancy' payment and annual percentage to a member of the 'old boy network'. And now we have the scenario where France has 'capped' their own countries energy costs at a seemingly sensible level.........and us Brits are effectively subsidising the French nation. We need to forceably 'buy-back' our own assets and take control of our own country. Brexit was the first step..........
I look at UK and USA politics, events in Russia, Ukraine, here in the UK, anywhere in fact.......and they are all totally inept and as uncontrolled as a classroom full of kids when the teacher pops out of the classroom to take a leak...............

 

[CaptainK]

I am strongly toying with the idea of changing my wife's 2 litre BMW.

Does she know of your plans? I'm amused at the thought of the look on her face when her car goes missing and in its spot is a random newer car

 

[Roscobbc]

Does she know of your plans? I'm amused at the thought of the look on her face when her car goes missing and in its spot is a random newer car

Some ladies get very attached to their cars and are unwilling to go through the performance of learning all the oddities and foibles of a new one.
Are you 100% confident of her attachment to you.......?

 

[CaptainK]

Some ladies get very attached to their cars and are unwilling to go through the performance of learning all the oddities and foibles of a new one.
Are you 100% confident of her attachment to you.......?

With me? Or with Yellowshark? Because I can tell you now I don't know Yellowshark's wife

But yeah, my mum won't change her car - 2002 Pug 206 - as she loves it and is happy with it. If I changed my wife's car on a whim, there'd be hell to pay - 1) because its her car I just got rid of, and 2) because I'm the skint one in the relationship, and she's the money one. So she'd be wondering how I "stole" her money to buy the car

 

[Chuffer]

Some ladies get very attached to their cars and are unwilling to go through the performance of learning all the oddities and foibles of a new one.
Are you 100% confident of her attachment to you.......?

Once they give them names you know it`s a keeper . My wife called her Toyota MR2 ` Beanie ` ( don`t ask !! ) and kept it for 15 years . It was a cracking little car though .

 

[teamzr1]

California's Wet Dream, HaHaHa

Add just another new million EVs and now crank up those 50 amp vehicle chargers and turn off the A/C !

Just days after passing a law banning new sales of gasoline powered cars by 2032, California is urging residents to avoid charging their electric vehicles during peak hours in the coming week to help ward off blackouts during an expected heatwave.

“During a Flex Alert, consumers are urged to reduce energy use from 4-9 p.m. when the system is most stressed because demand for electricity remains high and there is less solar energy available.
The top three conservation actions are to set thermostats to 78 degrees or higher, avoid using large appliances and charging electric vehicles, and turn off unnecessary lights.“

The California Independent System Operator that manages the electric grid for about 80 percent of the Golden State warns the power system is expected to come under strain as homeowners and businesses crank up their air conditioning units. Weather forecasters expect temperatures to climb on Wednesday and intensify through the start of next week.

Peak load for electricity is currently projected to exceed 48,000 megawatts on Labor Day, the highest of the year, said the system operator, known as the California ISO for short, in a heat bulletin released late Tuesday. For perspective, 48,000 MW is about 14 percent higher than Tuesday’s peak.

…”If weather or grid conditions worsen,” the ISO bulletin said, the grid manager “may issue a series of emergency notifications to access additional resources and prepare market participants and the public for potential energy shortages and the need to conserve.”

That could well mean issuing a Flex Alert, a statewide request for customers to voluntarily reduce energy consumption from 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Those are the hours when California’s grid is under the most pressure because production from solar decreases and eventually disappears in the evening hours but the weather is still hot, and energy demand remains high because people are still consuming electricity.

California’s electric vehicle mandate will be phased in, according to Cal Matters:

“Automakers will have to gradually electrify their fleet of new vehicles, beginning with 35% of 2026 models sold, increasing to 68% in 2030 and 100% for 2032 models. As of this year, about 16% of all new car sales in California are zero-emission vehicles, twice the share in 2020.”

HEAT BULLETIN
Aug. 31, 2022
Contact: ISOMedia@caiso.com

Excessive heat starting tomorrow will stress energy grid

Consumer conservation, likely needed this weekend to avert power outages

FOLSOM, Calif. – Starting tomorrow through Tuesday, California and the West are expecting extreme heat that is likely to strain the grid with increased energy demands, especially over the holiday weekend.

Temperatures are forecast to begin rising Wednesday, August 31, intensifying through the holiday weekend and extending to early next week. In many areas of the West, temperatures are forecasted to hit triple digits and break records.

In what’s likely to be the most extensive heat wave in the West so far this year, temperatures in Northern California are expected to be 10-20 degrees warmer than normal through Tuesday, Sept. 6. In Southern California, temperatures are expected to be 10-18 degrees warmer than normal.

The ISO is taking measures to bring all available resources online. Restricted Maintenance Operations (RMO) have been issued for Wednesday, Aug. 31, through Tuesday, Sept. 6 from noon to 10 p.m. each day, due to high loads and temperatures across the state. During the RMO, market participants are ordered to avoid scheduled maintenance to ensure all available generation and transmission lines are in service.

The peak load for electricity is currently projected to exceed 48,000 megawatts (MW) on Monday, the highest of the year.

If weather or grid conditions worsen, the ISO may issue a series of emergency notifications to access additional resources and prepare market participants and the public for potential energy shortages and the need to conserve.

The power grid operator expects to call on Californians for voluntary energy conservation via Flex alerts over the long weekend.

During a Flex Alert, consumers are urged to reduce energy use from 4-9 p.m. when the system is most stressed because demand for electricity remains high and there is less solar energy available. The top three conservation actions are to set thermostats to 78 degrees or higher, avoid using large appliances and charging electric vehicles, and turn off unnecessary lights. Lowering electricity use during that time will ease strain on the system, and prevent more drastic measures, including rotating power outages.

 

[teamzr1]

Today, Newsom's plea to limit charging of electric vehicles during a fearsome heatwave has been met with mockery on Twitter, days after the state passed a ban on gas-powered vehicles to take effect by 2032.

The state's top energy regulator has warned Californians to avoid charging their EVs between peak hours of 4pm to 9pm through Tuesday, and to crank their thermostats up to 78F in a bid to avoid blackouts.

In response to soaring power demands, California Governor Gavin Newsom also declared a state of emergency that temporarily removes pollution controls on fossil fuel power plants to allow them to generate more electricity.

The unusual combination of circumstances, as triple-digit temps strain California's aging power grid, was seen by some as proof the state had not thought through its green agenda.

 

[teamzr1]

And another wacko state hating gas based vehicles who cannot even allow A/Cs to bet set what the paying customers need

During the dog days of summer, it's important to keep your home cool. But when thousands of Xcel customers in Colorado tried adjusting their thermostats Tuesday, they learned they had no control over the temperatures in their own homes.

Temperatures climbed into the 90s Tuesday, which is why Tony Talarico tried to crank up the air conditioning in his with sick partner's Arvada home.
"I mean, it was 90 out, and it was right during the peak period," Talarico said. "It was hot."

That's when he saw a message on the thermostat stating the temperature was locked due to an "energy emergency."
"Normally, when we see a message like that, we're able to override it," Talarico said. "In this case, we weren't.
So, our thermostat was locked in at 78 or 79, with high humidity"

On social media, dozens of Xcel customers complained of similar experiences — some reporting home temperatures as high as 88 degrees.
Xcel confirmed to Contact Denver7 that 22,000 customers who had signed up for the Colorado AC Rewards program were locked out of their smart thermostats for hours on Tuesday.

"It's a voluntary program. Let's remember that this is something that customers choose to be a part of based on the incentives," said Emmett Romine, vice president of customer solutions and innovation at Xcel.

This is the first time in the program's six-year span that customers could not override their smart thermostats, Romine said. He said the "energy emergency" was due to an unexpected overuse outage in Pueblo combined with hot weather and heavy air conditioner usage.

But Talarico said he had no idea that he could be locked out of the thermostat.
While he has solar panels and a smart thermostat to save energy, he says he did not sign up to have this much control taken away.

"To me, an emergency means there is, you know, life, limb, or, you know, some other danger out there — some, you know, massive wildfires," Talarico said. "Even if it's a once-in-a-blue-moon situation, it just doesn't sit right with us to not be able to control our own thermostat in our house."

 

[phild]

I imagine this kind of thing will happen with the mass installation of, so called, smart meters here in UK.

 

[Mad4slalom]

Today, Newsom's plea to limit charging of electric vehicles during a fearsome heatwave has been met with mockery on Twitter, days after the state passed a ban on gas-powered vehicles to take effect by 2032.

The state's top energy regulator has warned Californians to avoid charging their EVs between peak hours of 4pm to 9pm through Tuesday, and to crank their thermostats up to 78F in a bid to avoid blackouts.

In response to soaring power demands, California Governor Gavin Newsom also declared a state of emergency that temporarily removes pollution controls on fossil fuel power plants to allow them to generate more electricity.

The unusual combination of circumstances, as triple-digit temps strain California's aging power grid, was seen by some as proof the state had not thought through its green agenda.

 

[Mad4slalom]

I imagine this kind of thing will happen with the mass installation of, so called, smart meters here in UK.

and we thought orwell’s “1984 “was far fetched !

 

[teamzr1]

Now that is funny

The electric vehicle of an unfortunate Washington, DC, tourist ran out of battery in the middle of a remote West Virginia road on Friday. Thankfully, a few unlikely good Samaritans were nearby to rescue the stranded traveler.
The wild sequence of events was recounted by Tucker County State Sen. Randy Smith (R) on Facebook, which occurred near a coal mine on Mettiki Coal access road U.S. 48, a few miles outside of Davis, West Virginia, according to WTRF.

“Today at our mine off Corridor H an electric car from DC ran out of battery at the road entrance to the mine,” Smith wrote.
The state senator noted that the vehicle was stranded in the middle of the haul road, meaning that workers had to act fast to not impede incoming traffic.

As a few coal miners came to assist, it was soon realized that the vehicle could not be moved by a tow truck since the bottom of the car was all plastic with nothing to hook onto.

With few options left, the coal miners worked with the driver to push the vehicle up the road to the mine, where the traveler could recharge his car.

 

[Nassau65]

Coal power to the rescue it seems.

 

[teamzr1]

With California’s energy grid unable to meet demand, four emergency gas-powered generators have been called on to ease the strain on the state’s power grid.

California is facing a heat wave with triple-digit temperatures breaking records, according to CBS, which noted Livermore in the Golden State’s Alameda County set a new record Monday at 116 degrees.

“We have now entered the most intense phase of this heat wave,” said Elliot Mainzer, president and chief executive of the California Independent System Operator, according to The Sacramento Bee.

“The potential for rotating outages has increased significantly.”

He added that the grid faced “energy deficits of 2,000 to 4,000 megawatts, which is as much as 10 percent of normal electricity demand.”

How’s the electric grid doing in California? It’s high noon, and renewables are only producing 32.4% of the state’s electricity needs.
State officials want to close the gas-powered plants that are currently providing 45.1% of the electricity that keeps the lights on.

To avert that, the California Independent System Operator on Monday called on the Department of Water Resources to activate four emergency generators, according to KMPH-TV. The generators were installed in 2021, two each in the Sacramento-area cities of Roseville and Yuba City.

The generators can provide up to 120 megawatts of power through natural gas.
That’s enough to only power about 120,000 homes, according to a Department of Water Resources.

The situation facing California was described by The Sacramento Bee this way: “California’s increasing reliance on solar power and other renewable sources has made the grid susceptible to blackouts in the early evening, when solar panels go dark but the weather stays hot.”

So how's that greenie crap going ?

 

[Roscobbc]

Our new Prime Minister Truss's first parliamentary question time today - she noted that to help the people relating to the collosal energy 'hikes' we have seen this year (and more to follow) the government will 'cap' energy prices......and look at ways of extracting more gas from the North Sea oil fields......plus investing in new Nuclear power stations. Our current government, previous governments from probably the last 20 years at least have been deliberating about replacing end of life power stations, commissioning new ones (and even cancelling new builds) - I'm guessing the general public haven't a clue actually how long it takes to build and commission a nuclear power station........7 years minimum 10/12 years more feasible. How's that going to help our current energy crisis. Politicians are without doubt the biggest group of *ankers ever!

 

[teamzr1]

I find most holding office talk out their asses and lie when they move their lips
Believe it when you see it

 

[teamzr1]

I do not think EVs would make this any better

Switzerland is considering jailing anyone who heats their rooms above 19C for up to three years if the country is forced to ration gas
The country could also give fines to those who violate the proposed new regulations.
Speaking to Blick, Markus Sporndli, who is a spokesman for the Federal Department of Finance, explained that the rate for fines on a daily basis could start at 30 Swiss Francs

He added that the maximum fine could be up to 3,000 Swiss Francs (£2,667).
And companies who deliberately go over their gas quotas will face punishment.
Additionally, according to the potential measures, temperatures in gas-heated buildings can be no more than 19C (66.2F), with water heated up to 60C (140F).
Blick also reported that radiant heaters would not be allowed and saunas and swimming pools would have to stay cold.
The measures are stated in the Federal Law on National Economic Supply, referred to by the Federal Department of Economic Affairs (EAER) in an official document.

Also, news says Countries in Europe that have TV game shows,
The winners do not get money but instead, gas coupons for their vehicles