Nice looking Vettes with Attitude here please
- Thread starter Daytona Vette
- Start date
CaptainK
Administrator
I would love that 454 Manual. Amazing
. I dare not ask how much they go for now.
Roscobbc
Moderator
The odd thing about a 454 C3 is that some people will say "no way, that'll handle badly (as compared to a 350) - too much engine weight, too 'lardy', poor economy". And that mindset has been endemic over many years. That 'logic' probably comes from the very last couple of the big block cars that were fitted-up with restrictive emission settings.I would love that 454 Manual. Amazing
Reality is that a small block at 50/50% weight distribution front/rear has what is generally regarded as a perfect balance for a sports car. A big block car has 52% front - 48% rear weight balance.......not much difference eh? - junk the a/c, add a pair of ally heads and that balance is close to a small block car. Truth probably is that the nay-sayers perhaps can't handle the prodigious power of a engine combo that is always looking to direct you through the nearest hedge if you don't respect it?
antijam
CCCUK Member
While the weight distribution difference between the big and small block cars is small, the extra mass of the stock big block - typically around 125 lbf - is all situated forward of the firewall and does have a marked effect on the car's polar moment of inertia. This will affect turn-in response and promote understeer. I wouldn't suggest that one configuration is better than the other, but they will handle differently. On our convoluted and increasinly congested british roads, exploiting the full potential of a big block is difficult, but as a track car it must be a blast. As a daily driver the small block is probably a more relaxing drive ( and you'll get a few more mpg! )
Roscobbc
Moderator
Accepted - but at least the excess weight is behind the front axle - mine now with ally heads, inlet manifold and water pump (plus tubular headers and no a/c) that front end weight differential I would guess is now perhaps 35lb more than a period iron headed SBC.While the weight distribution difference between the big and small block cars is small, the extra mass of the stock big block - typically around 125 lbf - is all situated forward of the firewall and does have a marked effect on the car's polar moment of inertia. This will affect turn-in response and promote understeer. I wouldn't suggest that one configuration is better than the other, but they will handle differently. On our convoluted and increasinly congested british roads, exploiting the full potential of a big block is difficult, but as a track car it must be a blast. As a daily driver the small block is probably a more relaxing drive ( and you'll get a few more mpg! )
CaptainK
Administrator
These are all good things I tell myself as to why I have a SBC.... whilst also crying quietly in the corner, mutting "I want a big block dammit" .
Jokes aside, my SBC 327 is more than enough for me, especially with the tiny country roads around here. Can't really exercise it that much, and it looks like a big block as it has a big block bonnet. Tempted in the future to get some better heads etc, but we'll see.
.Jokes aside, my SBC 327 is more than enough for me, especially with the tiny country roads around here. Can't really exercise it that much, and it looks like a big block as it has a big block bonnet. Tempted in the future to get some better heads etc, but we'll see.
antijam
CCCUK Member
I can see the attraction of big blocks in the States where the corners are few, gas is (relatively) cheap and their prodigious torque is just what's needed for the "race between the lights". For road or even tight track use here in the UK the value is less obvious. There's no doubt the stock big block's weight does compromise its handling compared to its smaller brother. Shaving off weight while tuning to increase both power and torque - as Rosco has done - is one way of mitigating the difference, but gaining more power and torque from a small block and perhaps saving weight as well might produce a car better suited to our roads.
It's easy to tune a small block to match and even exceed the power of a stock big block; what is difficult to achieve is matching the low end torque. (You're gonna lose at the lights).
If you want big block performance in a car that retains small block handling, the best answer is surely a stroker motor, typically taking a 350 to 383 cu.in. Although the increase in crank throw is only just over 1/8" this produces a significant increase in torque and when coupled with other standard tuning techniques the stroker can produce between 400 and 500 HP and between 450 and 500+ lb-ft of torque - easily matching a stock bbc.
Of course, as always, performance comes at a price, but as a way of optimising the performance of a stock sbc 'Vette for British roads the stroker route has a lot going for it.
Personally though I have to say I'm pretty content with the drive from my stock base '71 sbc. At 84 I'm well aware that my reflexes and peripheral vision are certainly not what they were in my 20's. There's enough shove in the back from 360 lb-ft of torque and enough speed from 270 HP to ruffle my hair (what's left of it) in the wind, so I'm happy and not too likely to end up as a road accident statistic. (If I want to do that, a loud pedal outing in my 410 HP Mustang is much more likely)
It's easy to tune a small block to match and even exceed the power of a stock big block; what is difficult to achieve is matching the low end torque. (You're gonna lose at the lights).
If you want big block performance in a car that retains small block handling, the best answer is surely a stroker motor, typically taking a 350 to 383 cu.in. Although the increase in crank throw is only just over 1/8" this produces a significant increase in torque and when coupled with other standard tuning techniques the stroker can produce between 400 and 500 HP and between 450 and 500+ lb-ft of torque - easily matching a stock bbc.
Of course, as always, performance comes at a price, but as a way of optimising the performance of a stock sbc 'Vette for British roads the stroker route has a lot going for it.
Personally though I have to say I'm pretty content with the drive from my stock base '71 sbc. At 84 I'm well aware that my reflexes and peripheral vision are certainly not what they were in my 20's. There's enough shove in the back from 360 lb-ft of torque and enough speed from 270 HP to ruffle my hair (what's left of it
) in the wind, so I'm happy and not too likely to end up as a road accident statistic. (If I want to do that, a loud pedal outing in my 410 HP Mustang is much more likely)
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Chevrolet
CCCUK Member
£30k for the red one above:I would love that 454 Manual. Amazing
CaptainK
Administrator
That's actually quite well priced. If only it were around when I bought mine 10 years ago
Roscobbc
Moderator
I'm not that far behind you Antijam in terms of 'candles burnt' - and apply your explained 'stroker' logic to a big block (so 1/2" stroker crank with a 427, 1/4" on a 454)and you get an even better commensurate improvement........and that typical 450 ftlb's of big block torque then become available at significantly lower rpm (perhaps low 'teens/early 2000's rpm) and is replaced (still at relatively low rpm.....with peak torque at, say 4000rpm?) and potentially 600+ ft lbs. It allows two ways to use the car - drive on torque, minimal gear-shifting........or drive and change gear on hp peaks and have a little (mainly) straight-line fun.I can see the attraction of big blocks in the States where the corners are few, gas is (relatively) cheap and their prodigious torque is just what's needed for the "race between the lights". For road or even tight track use here in the UK the value is less obvious. There's no doubt the stock big block's weight does compromise its handling compared to its smaller brother. Shaving off weight while tuning to increase both power and torque - as Rosco has done - is one way of mitigating the difference, but gaining more power and torque from a small block and perhaps saving weight as well might produce a car better suited to our roads.
It's easy to tune a small block to match and even exceed the power of a stock big block; what is difficult to achieve is matching the low end torque. (You're gonna lose at the lights).
If you want big block performance in a car that retains small block handling, the best answer is surely a stroker motor, typically taking a 350 to 383 cu.in. Although the increase in crank throw is only just over 1/8" this produces a significant increase in torque and when coupled with other standard tuning techniques the stroker can produce between 400 and 500 HP and between 450 and 500+ lb-ft of torque - easily matching a stock bbc.
Of course, as always, performance comes at a price, but as a way of optimising the performance of a stock sbc 'Vette for British roads the stroker route has a lot going for it.
Personally though I have to say I'm pretty content with the drive from my stock base '71 sbc. At 84 I'm well aware that my reflexes and peripheral vision are certainly not what they were in my 20's. There's enough shove in the back from 360 lb-ft of torque and enough speed from 270 HP to ruffle my hair (what's left of it
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Nassau65
CCCUK Member
I personally think that owning a big block corvette is to own something iconic/rare/unique-ish. Considering the last BB corvette was produced for the 1974 model year that’s 52/53 years ago.
Those C2 and C3 Big Block monster hold a special place in corvette history.
Advancement in modern cars makes their performance less spectacular, although their fuel consumption could be called that.
Their hoods/bonnets were a symbol of such, distinctive to the breed. You noticed the hood and you knew what was lurking underneath. Many small block owners upgraded their hoods for whatever reason.
My own 74 454 convertible last of the breed is a nice driving car but not the monster of the road it possibly was when new. Modern cars make it a dinosaur in performance. But it is what it was and is now.
If I was in the market for a C3 I would certainly want/like a big block for nostalgic reasons.
Those C2 and C3 Big Block monster hold a special place in corvette history.
Advancement in modern cars makes their performance less spectacular, although their fuel consumption could be called that.
Their hoods/bonnets were a symbol of such, distinctive to the breed. You noticed the hood and you knew what was lurking underneath. Many small block owners upgraded their hoods for whatever reason.
My own 74 454 convertible last of the breed is a nice driving car but not the monster of the road it possibly was when new. Modern cars make it a dinosaur in performance. But it is what it was and is now.
If I was in the market for a C3 I would certainly want/like a big block for nostalgic reasons.
Nassau65
CCCUK Member
Seems very fairly priced . Certainly looks good in the photographs