C5 died

[Choosing a name is hard]

My C5 was running great when i took it out and the powersteering pully faild . I have now replaced it . The belt didnot snap or hit anything that i can seebut while it was stood waiting for the part the battery wend fully dead . i have put a new battwery on and it turns over like a champ it just wont start/ fire . The dic is not working ( was not working before so i dont think its related ) . The socket under the steering wheel that you can plug a fault reader in will power the reader but cannot read anything . I have cleaned the front earths by the hood rams and this weekend i am going to remove the side panel in the drivers foot well and see if i can clean the ground in there . All the fuses are ok . So my question is is there anything that i can try to get it started . Is there a mechanic in the North west thats good with C5's
Pete

 

[teamzr1]

Did you just replace the PS pulley and nothing else ?

When you open the driver's door, does the security light flash ?

IF stays hard on than the PCM and BCM are not synced with the VATS security code and needs a relearn
Did you check fuses in both the panel in the engine bay and the one in the cubbyhole under the passenger floor ?

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

I am away at work until the weekend
Will check the lights
Yes both fuse box’s

 

[oelarse]

The first I would do is checking if the serial databus signal is OK.
The signal should be looking like this on a oscillioscope is 7 volt pulses shown her on my scope .
If the serial wire is grounded or partly broken somewhere the will no pulses or the the pulses can be disturbing the serial communication between g between moduls
The serial wires to door modules are weak points due to many opening/closing of the doors causing the wire to break apart .
A removal of the star connector for the door/seat modules will isolate this problem

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

The first I would do is checking if the serial databus signal is OK.
The signal should be looking like this on a oscillioscope is 7 volt pulses shown her on my scope .
If the serial wire is grounded or partly broken somewhere the will no pulses or the the pulses can be disturbing the serial communication between g between moduls
The serial wires to door modules are weak points due to many opening/closing of the doors causing the wire to break apart .
A removal of the star connector for the door/seat modules will isolate this problem


View attachment 20923

All this is beyond me but thanks

 

[teamzr1]

I am away at work until the weekend
Will check the lights
Yes both fuse box’s

First thing to do is open drivers door and see if security light is flashing
and of course good battery voltage as controllers do not work well under 12.5 volts

 

[Mr. Cricket]

Parts USA in Bredbury Stockport will fix you up and get your member discount if you're a CCCUK member

Parts USA​

www.partsusa.co.uk
Unit 13 Gate Centre, Bredbury Park Way, Bredbury SK6 2SN
0161 872 7744

​

 

[Rich]

Parts USA in Bredbury Stockport will fix you up and get your member discount if you're a CCCUK member

​

​

What are the details of the discount please, Stuart, as I use them for my Camaro service items?

 

[Mr. Cricket]

What are the details of the discount please, Stuart, as I use them for my Camaro service items?

I set it up with Neil & John couple of years back. 10% off on parts and labour reduced from £90.00 to £70.00 / hour

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

Did you just replace the PS pulley and nothing else ?

When you open the driver's door, does the security light flash ?

IF stays hard on than the PCM and BCM are not synced with the VATS security code and needs a relearn
Did you check fuses in both the panel in the engine bay and the one in the cubbyhole under the passenger floor ?

Light flashes when door open.stays on solid for a few seconds when key is put in ,then goes off

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

So today I removed the battery and cleaned the ground down there ,I removed the drivers footwell trim and cleaned the ground under there . I removed a ht lead and put a plug on it and it sparked well . But it still won’t fire . So I am thinking fuel now I know nothing about fuel injection apart from be careful it can be dangerous due to the pressure.is there a pipe I can take off safely and turn the car over to see if fuel is coming out . Or is that a daft idea ?

 

[teamzr1]

If the security light flashes than it should be fine to VATs system

You do not mention which tranny this has but
If manual there is a safety start switch on the clutch pedal, if some issue with it would prevent a start
If auto tranny there is a park/neutral switch, if an issue with it will prevent start, try in neutral and see if any difference

Fuel system relay in fuse panel in engine bay, for a test look at the top of relay will give a part number
Look at other relays, same part #, temp swap to see if relay is bad
Sure, the fuse for it is good.
Could use a jumper with relay out to bypass relay and see is start up

Check fuses for the fuel injectors

2 wires to each injector, one side gets 12 volts from that fuse, the other wire is from the PCM, and it uses a reference to ground (not direct ground) and is how it commands how long an injector is on

Using a multi meter set to Ohms scale, black lead to a ground like at battery and red lead of meter to
disconnect connector of an injector and colored wire pin of that connector and assure getting 12 volts with key on, engine off

Using a fuel gauge tester, there is a test port on end of left fuel rail, with gauge connected and key on, engine off
see if correct pressure is 58 PSI

The problem is you say the DIC does not work, but if pulling in a coder reader or scanner connected to DLC under dash
see if any DTCs showing

Maybe disconnect one side of battery for a few minutes, reconnect and see if anything is different

As I mentioned in another thread you had about dead DIC, did you get a light and look very closely at the Starbus network cables
to see any type of wire damage or wiring connector dirty or not fully plugged in and while there to check all fuses
in that fuse panel ?

 

[Oneball]

So today I removed the battery and cleaned the ground down there ,I removed the drivers footwell trim and cleaned the ground under there . I removed a ht lead and put a plug on it and it sparked well . But it still won’t fire . So I am thinking fuel now I know nothing about fuel injection apart from be careful it can be dangerous due to the pressure.is there a pipe I can take off safely and turn the car over to see if fuel is coming out . Or is that a daft idea ?

If you take the plastic engine covers off you’ll see the hard fuel lines that distribute fuel to the injectors. There’s a Schrader valve on the end of one. With everything off depress it and you should have fuel in there. If there’s nothing turn it over a few times and with everything off try again. If there still no fuel then you know there’s a fuel feed issue. The pressure is enough to spray you but it’s not dangerous like a hydraulic system, just put a cloth over it.

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

Is this kit what I would need .?
Not sure about the smaller tyre valve comment
US PRO Tools Fuel Pump Pressure Tester, 5385

Comprehensive kit of adaptors and fittings for modern Schrader test port fuel injection systems.
Components fitted with quick coupling system and safety valve to prevent inadvertent discharge of fuel under pressure. High pressure, dual scale gauge reading 0-145psi.
Pressure release valve with drain hose for safe fuel recovery.
(This kit does not have the smaller " tyre valve " size adaptor in the kit)
Please check you dont need this size adaptor before ordering
Also thanks for the replies you guys are awesome

 

[teamzr1]

The test valve ( has a cap on it) on the end of the left fuel rail is the same size as what is used for a tire air fill stem
Remember fuel rail pressure is 58 PSI, Even with key on, engine off) the lower that pressure is the least chance of starting
If the pump is commanded ON, listen closely near firewall and as soon as key on the pump coming on for some seconds

If you cannot hear the pump than I would clearly look at the relay and if the fuse for it is good

Only about $30 US
Most auto parts stores sell these but also like Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7818-Fuel-Pressure-Tester/dp/B0006V2BI2/ref=psdc_15706941_t3_B084DCJSDJ

 

[teamzr1]

Here is the layout for the C5 engine bay fuse panel, under the panel cover will also show info

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

If the security light flashes than it should be fine to VATs system

I’d does

You do not mention which tranny this has but
If manual there is a safety start switch on the clutch pedal, if some issue with it would prevent a start
If auto tranny there is a park/neutral switch, if an issue with it will prevent start, try in neutral and see if any difference

It’s an auto , Tried that , still the same

Fuel system relay in fuse panel in engine bay, for a test look at the top of relay will give a part number
Look at other relays, same part #, temp swap to see if relay is bad
Sure, the fuse for it is good.

Checked fuse again all good swamped relay , still the same

Could use a jumper with relay out to bypass relay and see is start up

Check fuses for the fuel injectors

Done all good

2 wires to each injector, one side gets 12 volts from that fuse, the other wire is from the PCM, and it uses a reference to ground (not direct ground) and is how it commands how long an injector is on

Using a multi meter set to Ohms scale, black lead to a ground like at battery and red lead of meter to
disconnect connector of an injector and colored wire pin of that connector and assure getting 12 volts with key on, engine off
Did this and getting 12 volts
Using a fuel gauge tester, there is a test port on end of left fuel rail, with gauge connected and key on, engine off

Waiting for test kit

see if correct pressure is 58 PSI

Pressed in shrader valve and about 1 teaspoon of fuel came out . Tried to start again and again pressed in valve and same amount of fuel came out

The problem is you say the DIC does not work, but if pulling in a coder reader or scanner connected to DLC under dash
see if any DTCs showing

Dic and code reader powers up but can’t read codes

Maybe disconnect one side of battery for a few minutes, reconnect and see if anything is different

Tried and still no good

As I mentioned in another thread you had about dead DIC, did you get a light and look very closely at the Starbus network cables

Is this the one in the passenger footwell ? If so I disconnected it and looked at the wires all looks ok

to see any type of wire damage or wiring connector dirty or not fully plugged in and while there to check all fuses

With the very small amount of fuel when shrader valve pressed could it be a dirty fuel filter ?
Again thanks for taking the time to help
Pete

 

[Oneball]

You should get a load more than a teaspoons worth of fuel. Was there any pressure or just a little dribble? I’d be surprised if the fuel filter is causing enough of a blockage to cause your problem.

Can you hear the fuel pump at all?

have you checked the fuse for the pump?

 

[Choosing a name is hard]

Checked the fuse for the pump
I am on my own with terrible hearing so can’t hear it at the moment
I will get a friend over next weekend and get them to have a listen

 

[teamzr1]

When you just turn key on, engine off, can someone else go to the left rear tire as it is the primary pump and listen to hear that pump ?
When you say Dic and code reader powers up but can’t read codes, does that mean the reader does not function or mean it reports no DTCs have been tripped ?

The fuel filter located on frame rail close to left rear wheel is also a fuel regulator, yes possible but not likely as the problem
As other mention, at correct 58 PSI there would be a hard spray when you push in the pin for test valve
You have to answer the fuel issue by getting a fuel pressure gage onto that test valve

If no pressure and not the relay than two things

1. PCM is either commanding fuel pump on, but the wire from it to relay is bad.
You need with relay pulled off with a multi meter, see when cranking if the female pins in fuse panel is getting 12 volts and ground for the coil of relay
or
Is the female connector of relay from PCM to get 12 volts when cranking

You may have to take off the rear of front right inner fender to get to the PCM and closely look at the wiring for any problems there

2. Get to the left fuel pump and see if when cranking if getting that 12 volts and also ground to the pump
If needed, have to take off that left rear inner fender to get to left fuel tank and check there is getting 12 volts and ground

Yes the BCM, fuel panel and the Starbus network is in that cubbyhole on the passenger floor
. Starbus wiring is the flat cable and all the controllers plug into it.